Nirvikalpa Samadhi and what it is like to exist in a non-dual state

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Non-Duality is separate from Duality and non-Duality is in a Duality with Duality. Think about it.

Errm, no.

Non-duality is real, duality is illusory. They are in duality only as far as a video game and "the real world" is in duality, that is not really at all, because only one of these worlds actually exists in the analogy.

Non-Duality doesn't manifest anything, the ego does and this is where redefinition turns what should be Spiritual understanding into nonsense. The ego/Ahamkara creates Duality by way of differentiated consciousness, and that's where perceptual separation comes from. Ahamkara is "The 'I' of invented things," the 'things' of perceptual reality. That's where your different points of view come from. The experiences ae perceptually separate, not 'actually'.

It's an interesting philosophical concept, but I don't see any way of verifying it, personally.

[pixiedust]

No point talking to Greenslade about this topic because apparently, he's never been to Venice and thinks the place is a fantasy. Go figure.

Originally Posted by NoOne

Non-duality is real, duality is illusory. They are in duality only as far as a video game and "the real world" is in duality, that is not really at all, because only one of these worlds actually exists in the analogy.

Errrm no. Spirituality and science, which are actually one and the same on this topic, will tell you that what 'decides' what is real or not doesn't exist.

How can something that is not real enter your consciousness?

So-called 'non-Duality' is what is not Duality, it's a paradoxical attempt by the mind to resolve a paradox that it has created. What is not Duality can only exist relative to Duality, but that simple, common-sense logic seems to elude most people. The other issue is that the definition of 'Duality' seems to differ. In the mainstream it seems to be about supposed 'opposites' while Rupert Spira would say it's the 'distance' between the perceiver and the perceived, but they are one and the same. What is commonly known as non-Duality is a part of Advaita Vedanta, where there is "Not-Two."

"It's an interesting philosophical concept, but I don't see any way of verifying it, personally."
Sometimes Spirituality isn't always about Spirituality.

Originally Posted by pixiedust

No point talking to Greenslade about this topic because apparently, he's never been to Venice and thinks the place is a fantasy. Go figure.

Everything you say about me is about your perceptions, that's Spirituality 101.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 5 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by NoOne

In his illuminating text, The Yoga Sutras, the sage Patanjali introduces a systematic path to regain Higher Consciousness.

The Vedas also state that only humans have the potential for self-awareness. Dogs, for example, don’t ask, “Who am I?”

Having studied/practiced Pantanjali's Yoga Sutras under a revered sage from the orders of Shankara, I thought that your post was very well done.

However, I do not recall Pantanjali making any references to animals and enlightenment. As a matter of fact, Ramana Maharshi explicitly mentions that his devoted cow Lakshmi was "liberated" at the time of physical death. In the future, can we leave the animals out of this.

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

QUOTE 5 EXCERPT:



Having studied/practiced Pantanjali's Yoga Sutras under a revered sage from the orders of Shankara, I thought that your post was very well done.

However, I do not recall Pantanjali making any references to animals and enlightenment. As a matter of fact, Ramana Maharshi explicitly mentions that his devoted cow Lakshmi was "liberated" at the time of physical death. In the future, can we leave the animals out of this.

Hi, yes I heard about that quote from Maharishi.

The original quote itself from the OP is not from me, but from Deepak Chopra, hardly an esteemed scholar, but for my purposes, he did a good summary of the topic.

Whether animals can be liberated is a topic of long-time scholarly debate. In general, it is believed that only humans have this capacity and not for instance gods or fairies and certainly not animals. That to me sounds pretty narrow-minded and reeks of typical human arrogance. But, since animals can't talk, it's pretty hard to verify what kind of spiritual experiences animals are having. I can certainly see them meditating quite frequently, when they are in a relaxed state and just staring into space with their eyelids half-closed or in a resting position. I see this with deer, dogs and cats, though I haven't really observed cattle in this state. In any case, higher orders of mammals are probably capable of meditation, so in theory, perhaps they also have the capacity for liberation.

That goes against Hindu dogma though, which explicitly states that an animal needs to spend many lifetimes as a human in an evolutionary process, before they are ready for liberation. Even gods must be reborn as humans to achieve liberation, they can't do so in their god-form.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 36 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by NoOne

Whether animals can be liberated is a topic of long-time scholarly debate. In general, it is believed that only humans have this capacity and not for instance gods or fairies and certainly not animals. That to me sounds pretty narrow-minded and reeks of typical human arrogance.

As you duly pointed out, "Whether animals can be liberated is a topic of long-time scholarly debate". It is indeed the scholars who focus on such subjects instead of focusing on their own liberation.

In his short book, Truth Revealed, Ramana explicitly says: "Mere academic learning reduces a person to the status of a reproductive machine".

As you might surmise, I am not a big fan of the "scholars" but gravitate to the words of Ramana about his cow Lakshmi being "liberated". The scholars can continue to debate the subject as they wish.

I think that we are essentially in agreement on this subject.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

As you duly pointed out, "Whether animals can be liberated is a topic of long-time scholarly debate".

What do animals need liberating from?

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

What do animals need liberating from?

That depends totally on one's understanding of the Reality.

What do humans need liberating from other than their own self-limited gestalt role?

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

What do humans need liberating from other than their own self-limited gestalt role?

Isn't that a choice made by something 'higher' than self? And if we're not OK with things just as they are? I'm quite happy being a part of something bigger and badder than myself and exploring 'me.'