Why duality is not true, part 2

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

I might have a suggestion you might like.

Yes that's a good one. I saw it years ago and loved it. A good movie that will make you cry is "Lion" (2016) - Dev Patel Movie. I was just thinking the movie reminded me of what it must be like to see loved ones again when we pass. The movie shows some emotional suffering from losing those we love but the ending is great.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by utopiandreamchild

The most important of all duality, "right or wrong".
Which would you choose.

Right and wrong duality only exists in a person's personal relative reality. thus a person's personal relative reality is subjective.

Right and wrong does not exist outside of a person's personal relative reality, which is objective/absolute reality. One person thinks something is right while another person thinks that same thing is wrong. It is all subjective and has no truth to it.

The duality of matter/form/objective reality does not effect us spiritually in a negative way. However a person's imagination that puts the spiritual against form/matter/objective reality as if the spiritual and form/matter/objective reality are two different separate things, when they are not, does effect the person's spirituality in a negative way, and is and becomes the person's personal relative reality. This is the most important of all duality that effects a person's spirituality.

[saurab]

Originally Posted by utopiandreamchild

The most important of all duality, "right or wrong".
Which would you choose.

Right brings pleasure and happiness (and not just karmic). wrong brings pain and suffering. so which would YOU choose ?

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by Maisy

No one likes to suffer so at it's most basic level it leads us to seek peace, seek ways to lessen or end the suffering, that often leads to spiritual progress, learning acceptance, faith and trust.

i don't know if i like it or not (feel ambivalent right now) but I do know that I differ from pretty much everyone I've met that I don't want to lessen or end it. Too many interesting silver linings to be able to just ignore it that way. And this is and has always been my big problem with buddhism, they outright outlaw it.

Which isn't to say either though that I want to always go around attracting it... one doesn't eat non-stop after all...

[movingalways]

Originally Posted by iamthat

So why bother having an unreal discussion about that which has no reality?

The only way to break through the illusory dualistic perspective is to use concepts that serve that end. “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword." ~ Jesus Christ

"Sword" is a concept, yes, but one that was clearly meant to knock the (unreal) ego on its a**.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by movingalways

The only way to...
... the (unreal) ego on its a**.

I would like that, if it could reveal the nondual for me. But the nondual can't be revealed when it already is everything. Cannot find that which is believed to be lost. And so, my experience of all being a duality hides nonduality. As it is also non duality experiencing as if it is dual.

I can't win that game of seeking. It is hopeless. To look for myself. Never be able to find it. Because I am simply already it, but I cannot know it. It isn't about me and my quest of seeking it.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

But the nondual can't be revealed when it already is everything.

If the absolute is everything, it includes duality and every self that exists. Otherwise it is not truly everything.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Maisy

If the absolute is everything, it includes duality and every self that exists. Otherwise it is not truly everything.

Does that mean I will have to suffer dualities for all eternity? In this meaningless and confusing and pointless up and down ride with no escape or way out for all eternity?

There has to be a way out. An exit button.

I wish aliens would come down on the planet and lift the veil of seperation and be like "it was a joke all along guys! There really exists no such thing as suffering."

I want the joke to be over with. I want to wake up from all the illusions and suffering.

I wish there was a hero of some sorts who would wake me up. Wake me up from this nightmare called awareness. And life. I can't take it anymore, but I'm stuck here. I don't know of any way out.

My own inability to crumble from suffering is unfortunate. It seems like I can always take more. Even tho I don't even want to be able to. Life would be far better if the slightest suffering would instantly make me vanish. Disintegrate into sweet nothingness.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

There has to be a way out. An exit button.

I think there is but this is all just my opinions. I think it is a pretty tricky thing.

I think it is like this. We are born and over time growing up in this situation and circumstance we form certain habits and a certain way to operate or be. (The situation or circumstance is we as conscious awareness energy merges with a human body and it's brain.)

The merging is no small thing. We literally trace the neuron network of the brain and sinc with it. We of course as a species don't know any of this as we are not physical, we are energy, and there is nothing on earth and this physical plane that can detect us in anyway. We are basically invisible and undetectable.

Because we have merged and synchronized with the human brain, we come to fully identify with this body and even more so with the "mind" of the body which is comprised of thought and memory and emotions or feelings.

This "body mind" is designed to put us in conflict which can result in a lot of suffering and unhappiness. But this is all by design. It's designed to lead to conflict so we seek a way out, and the way out is an increase in awareness which aligns us with our "true self" which is the point of all of this.

Some religions talk about "finding your true nature or self" surrendering to God and so on. Being empty or mindful or praying to God, love your neighbor as yourself etc. It's all about the same basic thing I think.

The "mind" we have merged with is self centered, opinionated, egotistical, aggressive, selfish, pleasure seeking, fear based, etc so the way out or the exit button is a realization of our true self or energy self or soul or whatever we name ourselves. We don't "un-merge" until we leave this body but we can stop identifying which means we are no longer affected and suffer. Also our energy body has certain qualities which are experienced or brought forward to "primary" when is it wholly the core or center of our being such as divine love and no fear etc.

I think I skipped the "how" in this post and just talked about the situation. I'll post my thoughts on the how next.

[Maisy]

Why I think it's tricky. This is the hard part to explain because the part that will read this and think about it is the false self. The part we have identified with as the self, as us. So see what I mean? The "way out" or exit will be impossible because the "listener" is not really us. The dialog in our minds trying to "figure this out and do it" is not us. It's like telling someone you can't come in here with that suitcase and them saying it's not a suitcase it's me.

This is why so many teachers say you have to do it yourself, all they can do is point. And some teachers have said all the books and suttas and teachings and teachers and practices are worthless if you don't know your true self or Buddha nature or whatever they call it.

The "seeing" is all that is needed. The discovery of the true self. The non-identifying with the thought stream. The discovery of the un-realness of the conceptual or the "ideas about things." On a spiritual path, one has a mental concept of what they are and what they want to be. On what the "problem is" and ideas about that. Like this is the problem and we can't be free of it or whatever or these are the practices I need to do to be or experience this other thing. This whole story which can be extremely complex.

It's just noticing where your attention is now (on an idea or thought which we provide reality to) and that noticing or awareness puts your attention back in the real. The now as it is before we add a "story" to it. An interpretation.

But then the listener will keep asking how. It's not a how. The word based you can't do it or get there. Asking how is an attention on mind and thought and the "problem" that needs to be solved. There is no problem. Well in a way there is! I want this other thing. But there is no other thing. We are making the current thing, (with the help of our brain). But we cooperate by accepting thought and keeping our attention on mind and by identifying with all of this.

I think one thought that may come is this is too simple or there has to be more than this. Anyone thinking both these things has their attention on mind again or still.