Originally Posted by Lucky 1
Starlight.....I think you might be surprised that I do in fact agree with a fair portion of what you talk about
Commercial meat production is in fact a pretty loathsome thing to witness....I've seen it up close and personal......the problem is that there is no way in hell to feed 7 billion human beings on this planet without large scale raising of animals of all types.....chickens to cows
There is no way in hell to feed 7 billion people on this planet without large scale commercial farming.....and I will tell you that I grew up on a farm and the environmental and ecological footprint of commercial farming of simple fruits and vegetables for instance is absolutely gargantuan done on the scale that it must be done on to have any hope of feeding us all.
Without large scale commercial farming and animal husbandry practices....we simply wouldn't make it! .........Millions to billions would starve to death......and no amount of pie in the sky, spiritual wishing it away is going to change that.
Whats my answer??? Well...myself and the circle I run in are lucky enough to live in a tropical climate and garden year round and grow at least much of what we eat.....I live on the Gulf Of Mexico and we fish often so there's that.
And as you know I follow the spiritual path of the hunter and whatever meat we consume we went out and got ourselves....I can't remember the last time we purchased commercial meat.....and while I don't know if this would make any difference to how you feel about it....but at least the critters we eat were not raised bunched up in a pen....they got to grow up in the wild and have a life first.....and "the end" was short and quick!
I will admit that most people don't have the luxury of the lifestyle I lead.....I have both the climate and the property do do it on....the vast majority of people simply do not.
What's the answer for the bulk of the people around the world????...I'll admit that I just don't know but trashing the folks who feed us because it isn't pretty is not the answer.
The people who farm and ranch are just like the rest of us....trying to make a living....trying to feed the populace of the planet...doing the best they can with what they've got to do it with..
( The next part is lifted from a post I made in another thread)
I also think that the vast majority of vegetarian and vegans are completely unaware that the poorest groups of people around the worlds are already starving and struggling to survive on a vegetarian diet....and they are not too damn happy about I can tell you!!!......Because I've been there!!!
On a trip to Mozambique a few years ago.....I saw with my own eye's just how hard it is to make it on a vegetarian diet.....
For the most part all these people have to eat is cassava (boiled yucca root...pounded into a paste and eaten with there hands) along with the occasional seed pod from grass or trees.
There principle source of protein????...........Rodents!!!
As in catch a rat....shove a stick up its butt....then hold it over a fire and roast it till all the hair is burned off.....then pull off the skin and pick as much meat off the carcass as you can.
As you might imagine...these folks are skinny, weak and largely malnourished and don't live all that long.
While I was with that particular group...I bought them a billy goat for $7 U.S....more money then they will ever see and they either ate or used every part of it right down to the hide, horns and testicles.
Frankly....staying healthy on a vegan diet is a luxury only possible in a wealthy western country with modern supplements
I am not really surprised that you agree with a fair portion of what I say Lucky 1 as no one would condone cruelty. There is a great deal of difference from the cruelty that goes on in the farming industry and someone starving who hunts to feed their family. (although I have my own views on that too).
Let me address your points: I have no doubt that you have seen things up close in factory farming or ranching and you sound like you are well traveled.
Regarding there not being enough vegetation to feed 7 million people.... The animals themselves have to be fed on grains,corn etc grown of the earth.
If meat can be mass produced then that meat in its life needs feeding.
Surely that food that is fed to them could be used to to feed people, corn and grain could go a long way as animals themselves would not be in the numbers they are now in any way.. as they would not be needed to be mass produced and artificially bred. Nature would naturally select.
Also, if animals can be mass produced for food this can be easily done with crop surely in most areas of the world. Orchards etc.
The fact is humans can live off a variety of plants and vegetation. Some of the things we are not even familiar with, if society was different it would be more known. Even remote places have something, the earth is plentiful and full of nutrients and goodness in the strangest places.
I call it human lack of intelligence on the subject on a mass scale (or just the love of the taste of meat) that takes the enquiring mind away from studying nutrition and how to find it.
People will sooner head to a burger bar than read a book on the nutrients of a tree or plant.
It is society to blame....they have distorted peoples natural way of thinking from the beginning of time and replaced it with nonsense and multi million pound organisations of corruption, greed and cruelty regarding our food.
It is the mindset of the person that is in question , the motive and the reason.
Hunting for fun I do not agree with..this is cruel....factory farming is cruel.
As for farmers trying to scratch a living?
I dont think I have ever seen a farmer who truly cares for their 'animals' at all...they care for the money that their flesh will bring...
....... but this is when the spirit of a person(the farmer) comes through,,, and the measure of the man (or woman ) I feel...
How does one claim to care on a farm for their livestock and then pack them off for slaughter without a second thought....
where is the compassion for the poor beast that looks into your eyes as you load it onto the slaughter truck when there is a tree full of apples in the next field. Some even name their animals...talk to them...and as cold as you like send "Old Berty"to be killed without the blink of an eye...some even eat them themselves.....to me this is beyond comprehension.
You may say I look at it too simplistically but if this thinking was widespread there would be less health problems, the right amount of animals in the world in their natural native countries and less violence and negative vibrations due to animal murder on mass scale and the consumption of slaughtered flesh.
I still stand by what I have said all along.. love and compassion for all living things is the basis of spirituality.
I wish you well