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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #81  
Old Today, 11:38 AM
Goldcup7 Goldcup7 is offline
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Maybe we're getting stuck on words here, but imo there is no 'finite'. There only appears to be limits. What we label as the mind and the body, for instance, have no limits. Where does the mind end? The body is always changing its apparent limits.

So there is no issue of the finite being in the infinite. As I see it, apparently finite 'things' appear and disappear within the infinite. So there is only ever the infinite. Consequently 'the infinite' is just what is, and the term 'infinite' only describes it in terms of what it is not, i.e. not finite.

The issue we have is that in trying to describe What Is, we use reflective limited words. I consider it similar to listening to relaxing music - some people need soft music to relax, but it is better to embrace the silence. People mostly need the words to point to that which is, but it's better just to be. It seems there is a path from listening and learning, to being. Yet being is what we timelessly are.
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  #82  
Old Today, 12:25 PM
J_A_S_G J_A_S_G is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
I say and believe all of this in the context that the finite and the infinite are not seperate from each other, the finite and the infinite are literally, not figuratively one!
It seems the difference is between believing and knowing which is not to be confused with intellectual knowing. Knowing is not the same as knowing or belief, nor is it a product of sensory perception or intellectual investigation. The only possible thing that can be said is "It's like <insert metaphor/analogy>.
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  #83  
Old Today, 12:58 PM
J_A_S_G J_A_S_G is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldcup7
Consequently 'the infinite' is just what is, and the term 'infinite' only describes it in terms of what it is not, i.e. not finite.
That's a good point and I'll relate it to how Advaita approaches it. It's a two step process, the first being an intellectual and contemplative process understanding what It is not. The second step is realizing (not by intellectual or contemplative means) everything It is not is nothing apart from It. That you are in fact It.

https://youtu.be/kPdsAPlK2Js

It's just a teaching method going from the known to the unknown, kind of like trying to point to something that would normally elude the eye noticing it. See that big pine tree? That's not it. Okay, see that big branch 2/3 of the way up and sticking way out? That's not it. See the first very bright star directly above the end of the branch? That's not it. See the three dimmer stars in a line above and to the right of the bright star? That's not it. Follow the line of those stars and three times the length of the line they form. See the very faint star all by its lonesome? That's it!
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Last edited by J_A_S_G : Today at 01:45 PM.
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  #84  
Old Today, 02:14 PM
HITESH SHAH HITESH SHAH is online now
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name form shapes

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Originally Posted by J_A_S_G
Another way to phrase it is the appearance (name, form & usage) is unreal however the essence is real and all of us are That one nondual essence.
Yes very much agree . Names/shapes/ forms are unreal (temporary , fleeting ,changing , ephemeral ,short lived , contextual , limited ,finite). On the other hand Non-dual one-ness is real (lasting, permanent , universal ) . One can say this only with lived-in experience .
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  #85  
Old Today, 02:18 PM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldcup7
The Non Dual seeker's path is usually a gradual process of letting go of the ego, either through self enquiry, or service or worship of the One (God, Brahman, Guru etc.). We may practise both self enquiry and service to others..
I understand and agree with all the above. I will agree more with people, if people replace the word experience with learning, learned or something similar. I do not agree with people because they believe translated quotes from scriptures, gurus/teachers and etc have literal meaning. The absolute does not always equal the literal meangs, and vice versa.
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  #86  
Old Today, 02:21 PM
HITESH SHAH HITESH SHAH is online now
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life in dual world

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Originally Posted by Goldcup7
Also, when the ego eventually vanishes, and no trace of the belief of being separate is left, then the mind and the human are still active in the world. It may be the path of that human form to hide itself away from humanity in secret, or it may be the path of that human to share knowledge with humanity. That could certainly involve joining a forum like this and supporting seekers on their way.
Perfect . Non-duality experiences neither forbid joys of duality world nor eliminates the sufferings in this world . It simply makes the experience of journey in this world better for one and all concerned all the time possible . In fact non-duality exhorts seeker as you rightly described to get into duality world in better way. Well said.
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  #87  
Old Today, 02:22 PM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldcup7
Maybe we're getting stuck on words here, but imo there is no 'finite'. There only appears to be limits. What we label as the mind and the body, for instance, have no limits. Where does the mind end? The body is always changing its apparent limits.
Exactly, What appaers, that is not true, is an illusion or is not real.
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  #88  
Old Today, 02:25 PM
HITESH SHAH HITESH SHAH is online now
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life on earth

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Originally Posted by Starman
In my opinion planet earth is a training ground; it is a planet of awakening. There are simple things which keep us down, like the kind of foods we may eat and our attitude. But I have no doubt that there are people, human beings, who are walking this earth today seeing and feeling a blanket of spiritual substance which connects all things, the oneness of being viewed on a daily basis while walking this earth in a physical human body.
Due to limits on quotes , not quoting the entire post . You are truly a star true to your name . Great description of non-duality seeker's life . Thanks for for sharing in the forum .
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  #89  
Old Today, 02:51 PM
HITESH SHAH HITESH SHAH is online now
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non-duality

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Originally Posted by MikeS80
Really? This is what I am talking about. How is separating the finite from the infinite non-duality, when there is no seperation in non-duality, and there are no opposites in non- duality?

There are 2 things here .
First you seem still think that non-duality is a 24X7 365 days same levels of awareness state. This is incorrect . In meditation this state can be reality . But when we go the world , friends/family/colleagues/outings etc. There will be ebbs/low in such awareness (which also may be different for staunch seekers to mediocre seeker ) but it will not simply vanish . Imprints of meditation will still be there while playing in this world . And that impacts the experience of seeker's play in this world. As starman rightly described there will be ebbs and lows . But this is what non-duality describes . It does not negate duality . It exhorts and prescribes non-duality orientation in duality situation while in world . So the question you raise does not remain relevant for non-duality champions as non-duality is NOT a carte blanche ban on duality .

2nd You think non-duality is a bias of seekers like us and is a construct of our mind . This again is misunderstanding . Non-duality is a reality which nobody can escape . Only that one does not understand it in blatant material pursuits.

e.g . We have this entire world with all identifications / names / associations / shapes and form when we are awake . But when you sleep , all these things simply vanishes and you become one with non-dual whereby your breath still runs though you yourself are not doing yourself anything to do so . You can not even precisely tell the time when you will sleep and awake (without external aids) . It is a loose compulsory God mandated base non-duality through which everyone can build further on through his / her effort.

Sometimes one may feel we are parroting someone elses quotes/speeches/writing without experience . But you would appreciates that's part of learning and that an authentic leaning from authentic masters . So if possible do not mind we quoting others to understand our experiences.

Finally I am perfectly ok with whatever opinion you may hold . I trust your intellect to decide the best for you .
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  #90  
Old Today, 03:14 PM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_A_S_G
It seems the difference is between believing and knowing which is not to be confused with intellectual knowing. Knowing is not the same as knowing or belief, nor is it a product of sensory perception or intellectual investigation. The only possible thing that can be said is "It's like <insert metaphor/analogy>.
I understand that. There are five ways of knowing according to Advaita Vedanta:

1. perception-the ability to see, hear, or become aware of something through the senses.
2. inference-a conclusion reached on the basis of evidence and reasoning.
3. postulation or presumption-a suggestion or assumption of the existence, fact, or truth of something as a basis for reasoning, discussion, or belief.
4. comparison-a consideration or estimate of the similarities or dissimilarities between two things or people.
5. non-apprehension or non-recognition or non-perception.

The knowing you are talking about is a mix of #3-postulation or presumption and #5 non-apprehension or non-recognition or non-perception. One way of knowing is not any worse or better than any other way of knowing.
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