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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > North American Indigenous Spirituality > Faiths of Indigenous Peoples

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  #141  
Old 14-05-2024, 01:26 PM
eezi-ulgen eezi-ulgen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
Then again, I have met ‘indigenous’ people who can walk into a Sacred site on the landscape and remain clueless, noticing nothing - which in turn makes me wonder who they actually are or rather which “reality orientation” were they brought up/conditioned in since our modern Western reality orientation considers “Bob” as Bob and not as an energy field. And not just Bob, but Bob with labels and attributes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMDt...el=HansWilhelm

Nice vid.
Bob with labels while all his manifested energy comes out of the absolute...
It's funny how we can build our labels/identity and play our labels we've assigned ourselves and get totally caught up in them...

I heard something funny last summer...My friend went to his first Sundance...
They had a sign with 10 rules to uphold and #10 on the list was:
"Just because you attend a Sundance does not make you a Medicine Man"...

We still joke about rule 10 it's funny...But then it's not...

There can be just as much if not more building of the Spiritual ego...I run into it all the time...
Also guilty of it myself...Ha Ha...
Lets Pray "Bob" does not become a new age healer, but then who am I to say what "Bob" should or shouldn't experience...
...Peace...
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  #142  
Old 15-05-2024, 12:20 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eezi-ulgen
Nice vid.
Bob with labels while all his manifested energy comes out of the absolute...

Yeah, not a bad video …
The other video which I linked to that post by Mr. Lipton tells the same story.
Mr. Lipton also goes on and on and on about “subconscious programming” in his other videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L-a....Lipton%2CPh.D.

In short – he reckons that a child from 2-7 years of age is in Theta brainwave state which he equates with hypnosis and this according to him this is how a child “downloads” his/her “subconscious program”.
I agree with him to a point, but have called this program “reality orientation”, which I also go on and on and on about.
Yet, even though he then speaks about changing the subconscious program – I only see him changing it in the way of the old program …..

Around 3-4 years of age – since I lived in my grandparent’s house – it became very clear to me that my grandparents came from 2 very different sets of programs.
Been learning some new terms: “the Local and the Non-local Consciousness” - so I am not entirely sure I am using and associating these terms correctly here.

However, my Western “white” grandfather was on the “Bob with labels program” and could NOT for the life of him let go of his “local consciousness” and join/tune into the “non-local consciousness”. That possibility did not exist for him.
My grandmother in turn - coming from the old more primitive hunter-gatherer, tribal program could NOT for the life of her be or become a separate self “Bobette” identity & I think it is partly because - being tribal, one is a collective (awareness space) identity first and foremost. One is just an individualized reflection of the whole, an individual ray of that collective.

In that awareness space of the collective - unconditional love, belonging already IS, it is ‘given’ – whereas the Bob-program thinks he must first learn to generate ‘unconditional love’ to express it and then expects to be rewarded medals for this – (his) ‘goodness’.
But this is the "clown act" from the collective space perspective ... fake as ...
And if one (separate from the collective space) needs to personally generate unconditional love, then it means it isn’t (already) there – innit?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7Gt...GautamSachdeva
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  #143  
Old 15-05-2024, 12:30 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Local & Non-Local Consciousness

Snippets from the net:
Quote:
Non-local consciousness has shown that consciousness exists independently of the brain and after death, based on numerous NDE studies demonstrate this fact.

Your consciousness is not in your head …
Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking for the announcer inside the radio.

It is possible to have an unlimited and nonlocal spacious awareness, which is spontaneous, holistic, and ever-fresh. It is unaffected by the body, mind, and space events and experiences.

Space Inside, Space Outside: the Non-Locality of Mind

Be the Space:
https://scienceandnonduality.com/article/be-the-space/

*

If consciousness were non-local, then an individual ought to be able to perceive information beyond the reach of the brain, body, and senses. For example, one might be able to gain information about a person, place, or object at a distant location.
The last paragraph is very ‘shamanic’.
Me thinks “Axis Mundi” was taught to navigate “Non-local Consciousness.”
Maybe it bears some similarity to Sundance?

Have never been taught healing but.
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  #144  
Old 16-05-2024, 11:05 PM
sentient sentient is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
Maybe it bears some similarity to Sundance?
I know we had touched on ‘Sundance’ before, but I watched a documentary about it again:
https://www.nfb.ca/film/sacred_sundance/
Quite moving.

Saami are also big on the Sun symbolism, but I cannot speak from experience here since I have never given offerings to the Sun as Saami do/did.
The 4 corners in the middle of the drum (as a cognitive map) represents the Sun and 4 means the ‘4 phases of the Sun’. The 4 phases also means the way from Earth to the Sun along which prayers are sent and blessings received.
https://www.laits.utexas.edu/sami/im...um-face-eg.jpg
Quote:
This drum is very sun-centered. The Beaivi (the Sun) is a part of the pillar of the universe around which everything takes place in the heaven of the deities as well as among people below.
So, I would imagine Saami to be able to relate to the ‘Sundance’ quite well and I assume ceremonies like that would bring or focus awareness on the collective identity (awareness space).
Indigenous (reality orientation) solutions to indigenous problems work the best.
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  #145  
Old 17-05-2024, 01:11 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Karelian way was that every family/household had an ‘offering tree’ in their yard.
These trees were not allowed to be cut down, instead these trees were ‘trained’ from a young sapling to become a conduit in communications with ancestors and the upper world spirits.
Carry prayers etc.

Or some trees were naturally like that - ‘Sacred’.
One could see their sacredness by the way they emitted light energy about them or the way they aligned one with Life, Universe and Everything in a sacred manner with their presence/vibration. Around them nothing could be killed, twigs couldn’t be broken nor berries, mushrooms, eaten ….
The whole community could come and visit these trees, bring them offerings - receive healings etc …..

This is a picture of one such tree. Lands have been sold and the urban sprawl has well and truly taken over, yet that old offering tree (or literally: 'sacrifice tree' uhripuu) still stands …
Also quite moving.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...190 &usqp=CAU
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  #146  
Old 17-05-2024, 03:59 PM
eezi-ulgen eezi-ulgen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
I know we had touched on ‘Sundance’ before, but I watched a documentary about it again:
https://www.nfb.ca/film/sacred_sundance/
Quite moving.

Yeah, I was moved deeply also...
The video was very well put together and captured the Good Spirit of the Sundance Ways at least skimmed some main points...

I will toot my own horn here a bit...
That video almost documented a Good and moving part of my Life that brought back fond memories...
I was able to be a small part traveling to various reservations and bringing back ceremonial Ways to the people to help turn peoples Lives away from drugs and alcohol and destruction...
All the traditional ceremonial people that drug me around with them was deep into the Sundance Ways...
So they brought me to help and make Fire for ceremony, many Sweat lodges and Vision Quest and Lawampi and Yuwipi and an occasional Sundance...

A snippet I wrote from page 1 of thread Indigenous Spirit of All colors

Quote:
Here is how my basic Native Spiritual Life began.
I went to a Inipi in about 1990(some call it a Sweat Lodge)
It is more appropriate to call it a Purification Lodge.
This Inipi we call our Mothers/GrandMothers Womb.(Earth).

Anyway I walked up to the fire where there were many cantaloupe
sized lava Rocks being heated Red hot.
The man worked the fire and I was amazed at the Fire and the Rocks.
After sitting in the Lodge and the man brought in the Red hot Rocks
I felt Primordial and this time I was in was gone and it could have been
any time on this Earth.
Something begged at my spirit and it longed and longed for something
like it never longed before.
I thought "WOW I wonder if one day I could carry in these
GrandFather Rocks with the Red hot Life in them?"
So after crawling out of GrandMothers Womb a clean fresh person I asked.
"You think one day I might carry those GrandFather Rocks into the Lodge?"
They said sure tomorrow.
In one day I achieved all my Spiritual goals.
I gave up my old life and jumped in the Medicine Mans van and started
down the Red Road of Life.
I have been carrying these Sacred Red hot Living relatives ever since
and my Life is always Blessed. They have taken me to many places and
I have sat with many Medicine peoples of all colors praying for goodness for everyone and
everything's Life.
As the basic saying goes.Mitakuye Oyasin.
Quote:
These two words mean “All My Relations” or “We are All Related”. To pray this prayer is to petition God on behalf of everyone and everything on Earth


So your video brought back the how and the why of my travels from that little snippet of meeting the Grandfather Rocks to today...
The video reminded me that I am in the North gate with white flags contemplating the white cold blanket of Forgiveness and Hoping this gate closes well...
Or to translate I'm Hoping for a Good and Peaceful Death...LOL...

...Peace...
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Last edited by eezi-ulgen : 18-05-2024 at 01:43 AM.
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  #147  
Old 19-05-2024, 12:33 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eezi-ulgen
A snippet I wrote from page 1 of thread Indigenous Spirit of All colors
Ah, the Indigenous Spirit of All colors page no. 1 memory lane …

Yes, David Gulpilil was the first aboriginal I ever met & at the time I had no idea who he was, but since he at first sight treated me as his close mate and me coming from Karelian ways from a place in the Old Country where everybody treats everybody like a relative (which is then extended to ‘strangers’ as well) – I was on a very familiar ground.

My first aboriginal teacher however was the Tiwi Elder in Darwin – but my ‘official’ teacher was “Uncle Ernie” (from the first page). He wasn’t a member of the ‘tribe’ (language group) I integrated into, but he is a Nationally registered teacher and since I worked in an Environmental Centre associated with an Aboriginal organization, we needed people who had an ‘official’ permission to speak about Aboriginal culture – although in the general info way only (minus personal experiences).
There is always this – who can speak for whom – in Aboriginal culture.

That Tiwi Elder (& I have mentioned before) - from the very moment we met, did use a ‘hypnotic voice’ to make me listen intently in order to make my mind slow down into inner stillness.
Exactly what my gran used to do to make us *shift* into what I call a nondual state where both of us were present (as “local consciousnesses”) yet we were neither – the neither bit being that *shift* into “nonlocal awareness” - which like an impersonal witness “one spirit” witnesses both simultaneously.
So, because I instantly recognized what the Tiwi Elder was doing, I trusted it implicitly – of course – but I noticed later on how some “whites” who were drawn into our presence for chats held a curios yet a bit suspicious mind, a fear barrier to it. Because they have been conditioned, subconsciously programmed to regard ‘space’ as distance??? or something ... that I cannot really understand or comprehend …



The ‘tribe’ (language group) I integrated into weren’t in this ‘nondual awareness state/space’ all the time, but occasionally when it spontaneously happened collectively, God it was too funny, because acting, making effort to be a local consciousness-separate-self identity made us all clowns, fakes, pretending separateness ….
Which I assume Mooji is doing (& I have also mentioned this before):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyZJ...hannel=Outdigo

But I appreciated the ‘tribe’ always creating a lot of mirth about ‘being somebody’, well, just like gran also did, tears running down her face at grandfather’s oh so serious egoic-self walled importance he tried to indoctrinate gran into (in the name of helping 'indigenous advancement').

So, I can well understand how some ‘outsiders’ when integrating into an aboriginal tribe think they are aboriginals too, because in a collective membership and spiritual sense one is – that is the truth, yet in another sense one isn't and that is the other truth & both truths need to be respected.

Physically, I have never been to an indigenous ceremony.
But I do respect those old Amerind ways and have appreciated your stories eezi-ulgen ….

Last edited by sentient : 19-05-2024 at 02:05 AM.
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  #148  
Old 20-05-2024, 06:14 PM
eezi-ulgen eezi-ulgen is offline
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Originally Posted by sentient
Which I assume Mooji is doing (& I have also mentioned this before):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyZJ...hannel=Outdigo

I do like me some Mooji...
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  #149  
Old 20-05-2024, 06:41 PM
eezi-ulgen eezi-ulgen is offline
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Originally Posted by sentient
So, I can well understand how some ‘outsiders’ when integrating into an aboriginal tribe think they are aboriginals too, because in a collective membership and spiritual sense one is – that is the truth, yet in another sense one isn't and that is the other truth & both truths need to be respected.

I never considered myself to be integrated with a tribe...

Though like my story above from post #146 says, I do feel integrated with the Rocks and Fire...
Well, and that led to a certain integration to everything else...Including humanity...
Though a tribe or at least any tribe I have been associated with there was always a tension stemming from past wrongs...
Only certain Spiritual people are free from that tension...

I have an integration of coming out of violence and abuse and alcoholism...
Led to freedom by Spirit and self inquiry and Prayer for guidance from Spirit...
Which put me in a Life of service to point others to the same freedom...
Which putting Fire to the Rocks is the least I could do in Life...
Actually putting Fire to Rocks is a pleasure and has taught me many things about integration and Life...
One being that if you don't flow with a Oneness and Connection you will be burnt to some degree...

...Peace...
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