"Traduttore, traditore" (translator, traitor)

[inavalan]

Recently I thought about the message of Francisco Goya's etching "El sueño de la razón produce monstruos" (1799) (The Sleep / Dream of Reason Produces Monsters)

It is one of those cases in which the translation loses the spirit of the message the author intended to convey. Even more interestingly, it seems that even the Spanish native speakers, familiar with Goya's works, can't really be sure of the intention of the author, who may deliberately have been ambiguous.

This is what the British writer Aldous Huxley (1894-1963) commented on Goya’s Dream/Sleep of Reason:

On the side of the desk are traced the words, ‘The dream of reason produces monsters,’ It is a caption that admits of more than one interpretation. When reason sleeps, the absurd and loathsome creatures of superstition wake and are active, goading their victim to an ignoble frenzy. But this is not all. Reason may also dream without sleeping, may intoxicate itself, as it did during the French Revolution, with the daydreams of inevitable progress, of liberty, equality, and fraternity imposed by violence, of human self-sufficiency and the ending of sorrow…by political rearrangements and a better technology.

Both, the title:

El sueño de la razón produce monstruos

and an extended caption of that etching written by the author:

La fantasía abandonada de la razón produce monstruos imposibles: unida con ella es madre de las artes y origen de las maravillas

leave room to both interpretations.

Based on the etching's composition, I believe that the simple, and most widely accepted interpretation is the one intended by the artist: "when reason sleeps, monstrosities may happen" (both: when you actually sleep, and also figuratively, when you don't use your better judgement although awake).

But the second interpretation, although may not be the one intended by the artist, "reason without imagination may produce monstrosities" is also so true (relying exclusively on reason, without imagining the consequences).

This made me recall the well-know expression "Traduttore, traditore" (translator, traitor). Most religious dogmas suffer of this problem too.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by inavalan

This made me recall the well-know expression "Traduttore, traditore" (translator, traitor). Most religious dogmas suffer of this problem too.

i think that pretty much anything that gets accepted as the 'one true way' is likely to follow this fate.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by inavalan

Recently I thought about the message of Francisco Goya's etching "El sueño de la razón produce monstruos" (1799) (The Sleep / Dream of Reason Produces Monsters)

It is one of those cases in which the translation loses the spirit of the message the author intended to convey. Even more interestingly, it seems that even the Spanish native speakers, familiar with Goya's works, can't really be sure of the intention of the author, who may deliberately have been ambiguous.

This is what the British writer Aldous Huxley (1894-1963) commented on Goya’s Dream/Sleep of Reason:

On the side of the desk are traced the words, ‘The dream of reason produces monsters,’ It is a caption that admits of more than one interpretation. When reason sleeps, the absurd and loathsome creatures of superstition wake and are active, goading their victim to an ignoble frenzy. But this is not all. Reason may also dream without sleeping, may intoxicate itself, as it did during the French Revolution, with the daydreams of inevitable progress, of liberty, equality, and fraternity imposed by violence, of human self-sufficiency and the ending of sorrow…by political rearrangements and a better technology.

Both, the title:

El sueño de la razón produce monstruos

and an extended caption of that etching written by the author:

La fantasía abandonada de la razón produce monstruos imposibles: unida con ella es madre de las artes y origen de las maravillas

leave room to both interpretations.

Based on the etching's composition, I believe that the simple, and most widely accepted interpretation is the one intended by the artist: "when reason sleeps, monstrosities may happen" (both: when you actually sleep, and also figuratively, when you don't use your better judgement although awake).

But the second interpretation, although may not be the one intended by the artist, "reason without imagination may produce monstrosities" is also so true (relying exclusively on reason, without imagining the consequences).

Yes too much reason/intellect is a problem and too little reason/intellect also is a problem . Right frame is balanced life oriented use of reason .

Originally Posted by inavalan

This made me recall the well-know expression "Traduttore, traditore" (translator, traitor). Most religious dogmas suffer of this problem too.

If possible and have time , can u elaborate . Probably I am missing some historical framework here.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

...
If possible and have time , can u elaborate . Probably I am missing some historical framework here.

Any translation and paraphrase filters the original meaning through the translator or paraphraser's interpretation, so we are left with a distortion of the intention of the original author.

Ancient religious texts (and dogmas) suffer of this problem too. They were translated and copied multiple times, the use of words and the cultural context changed, so it is very likely that we read distorted renditions of the original ideas, to which we add our individual interpretation.