Does Consciousness Affect Matter?

[BigJohn]

I find it interesting how such expressions as quantum physics, etc. are used as if they are daily used words with understanding.

I struggled to learn this subject when I went to college..... Is ꝭₚ really a common expression?

Originally Posted by BigJohn

I find it interesting how such expressions as quantum physics, etc. are used as if they are daily used words with understanding.

From the math side I get lost past f=ma. LOL! Math isn't one of my strong suits. It never really caught my interest or imagination.

Every now and then I toy with the thought of starting from scratch and taking the free online courses at Khan Academy, but my motivation is never strong enough. Maybe someday because I do love the sciences.

[God-Like]

As always it depends on what we relate to consciousness being and what consciousness is in relation to what we are. After all it's just a made up word to describe something like all things that are labelled.

If we were to speak along the lines of what we are is consciousness and what we is all there is, then of course everything will be effected on some level because the foundation is the same ..

If 'matter' is just a form of consciousness then there is no thought of there being both 'matter and 'consciousness' for they are the same.



x daz x

[7luminaries]

Hey there Dazza :) How's stuff?

First, I agree. I see matter and consciousness as of the same stuff, one being finer and more persistent. The other being denser and more temporary -- in fact, changing up entirely whilst the consciousness (generally) changes more gradually across life, owing to its persistence I suppose.

2nd...this really struck me as sooooo true:

it's just a made up word to describe something like all things that are labelled

And we simply need to have the humility and the maturity to recognise that. But as with all good things it's perhaps easier said than done.
But OMG don't tell some folks labels, ideas, paradigms, and in fact all of human culture and society are just that...imperfect and evolving.
As they are just amazingly and rigidly tied to certain labels, to certain ideas tied to certain labels, Only colouring inside the box and only in a particular way and with certain fixed colours. Fanatical, almost.
Many who worship secular deities are even more pronounced in their fanaticism.

I find this approach as a whole more and more fascinating as I go, this devotion to certainty and to fixed belief sets...what drives them into their rigidity (as it's not necessarily age-dependent BTW), I wonder?
And how is it they apprehend the changeable world of today if they impose a physical construct of how reality must be, when humanity and the world we observe is in flux in nearly all ways that we can perceive these things?
(I myself have (TG) undergone some deep and radical transformation, and also was able to largely come back to an integral heart centre after having to relate to the world very differently for a few years (with almost no feeling or awareness of feeling - whichever it was). Immense flexibility and simple acceptance of what is, has been required. But if I did not allow for radical accepance, radical forgiveness of self & others, of radical change and growth, how would I have come through all this at all, much less with my sanity and my heart?).

Perhaps more importantly for most of humanity...how do we practically deal with the dysfunction of these attitudes and these personality types in the real world day-to-day, for as I have been remembering more viscerally of late, unfortunately they can amount to far more than just someone else's nutty or rigid dysfunction. At the root of all purges, inquisitions, and totalitarian regimes and massacres is absolutism and rigidity, and control by force and by fear.

I also recognise something coming forward within me and it's coming directly from so many of my past lives...an old awareness, an old (very old) resistance to slavish, fanatical rigidity and certainty...of scapegoating and of mandatory conformity. I have lived under many authoritarian regimes in several past lives -- probably in all of them (LOL) but this one, variously, and I know for a fact it's a persistent human problem, in both primitive AND advanced societies. The need to make oneself (&/or by extension one's tribe) as a capricious "god", who rules over others through force, coercion, and oppression.

TBH...a common thread in all these regimes was the need or demand for absolute answers. For absolute certainty. For absolute conformity. For absolute solutions or answers (LOL). For absolute dictation of what is and isn't allowed...what ideas, what questions, what flavours of humanity, and so on. All because we lack the courage to take ownership for our words and deeds (and our intent and thought), to stand for principle, and to allow and support others in doing the same. Instead, absolutism requires scapegoats and common enemies ("of the people", or in so many words).

Last few days, I have felt real dread and it has felt like something arising from the depths, LOL...so I had to reflect where is this coming from? And this is the source of it. I cringe and my skin literally crawls when I face the massive dread I feel at these situations head-on. When I take ownership for my dread. Because I "absolutely" know I have lived under these contexts many times before. And I "absolutely" recognise them....LOL. Above all, I say this...yes, the words are made up, they are imprecise and evolving, just as intended, and it's OK. Planning is good and is ideally done precisely because of uncertainty and the desire to maximise positive outcomes. But ultimate uncertainty is also good, true, and beautiful, because it allows for all to come to be as to unfold in their particular way, including planning done to maximally promote the general welfare. And moreover, I know almost nothing with certainty...except that I know almost nothing with total certainty (particularly intellectually, LOL)...and FF for that !!! Put another way, the things I know (mostly non-intellectually, through direct apprehension) with an abiding surety comprise a fairly short list. And thank God for that as well

That said, and now back to your response....I definitely believe (through experience and illumination) that consciousness affects matter since it is antecedent to matter (or energy) and remains after matter and energy have come and gone. Matter and energy are just variously denser emanations of What Is...whilst consciousness is finer and persists, certainly in individuated form (which we experience across lifetimes) and also in collective and undifferentiated forms, of which we as yet know a bit less (or much less).

Peace & blessings Daz
7L

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

From the math side I get lost past f=ma. LOL! Math isn't one of my strong suits. It never really caught my interest or imagination.

Every now and then I toy with the thought of starting from scratch and taking the free online courses at Khan Academy, but my motivation is never strong enough. Maybe someday because I do love the sciences.

f=ma - Isaac Newton's second Law of Motion.

Reminds me of my third year of College......

I was failing a course that dealt with this subject till I found out I was in the wrong section.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hey there Dazza :) How's stuff?

First, I agree. I see matter and consciousness as of the same stuff, one being finer and more persistent. The other being denser and more temporary -- in fact, changing up entirely whilst the consciousness (generally) changes more gradually across life, owing to its persistence I suppose.

Hey :) I am good thanks, you?


I think this is the big fat juicy problem here and it's always been the case when we associate something as being this and that.

What I believe is absolutely necessary is to relate what that is or that isn't with what we are ..

There has to be this foundation to build upon fundamentally then we work our way up or down so to speak ..

This is why we can label an apple an apple (matter) and then breakdown fundamentally what an apple is at it's core (excuse the pun, but pun intended) lol.

This is why at the center of oneself there is no need for neti neti, there is no need either for having the debate about is consciousness this or that or does consciousness effect this or that ..

If we work from the foundation of there being only what we are at a grass root level then whatever manifests as this or that and however dense the appearance is or isn't or how self aware these things are or not is irrelevant .

The only relevance here is the discussion about the unique properties that pertain to something that is fundamentally the same as everything else .. so we can have juicy apples and we can have ice cold snowflakes and we can have fierce lions and stupid politicians .. but it's always what we are in expression of these unique properties and qualities ..

Things don't need to be 100% solid or 80% empty space to not be fundamentally what we are ..

When this is realized there is no need to play one thing off over another, one can just acknowledge that the sun is hot, the earth beneath our feet supports our weight, the rain quenches our thirst and such likes .

None of these unique qualities and properties take away their sameness .


x daz x

[Jalo90]

hi I have pleiadian friends I often go to and talk to , they live in a conscious created reality even so yes , now why on the incarnated earth this is not so
is an other matter , has to do that they are here on earth to learn and what is not seen , lies beyond there field they need to be in to learn . messing with that
can be not so good if in an un aligned way with certain laws .
I long ago asked my pleiadian friends what gravity was as we have it on earth . they told me its not a thing in it self but result of matter trying to return to the conscious energy state , that return is hampered by an other force that sustains that 'solid' world .Now what could that other force be ? I think they told me or showed me that too at the time . and sure you can spot over laps of influence between these realities

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey :) I am good thanks, you?

Hey there :) Not bad, just dealing with remnant flashbacks of totalitarian times the past few days. Sitting with myself through it and it's tough, LOL. We are closer than you may think and most in the West have no idea how badly it sux to live under the thumb of an authoritarian regime. WWII taught us nothing about right alignment and justice, coz our folks' gen (the Boomers) have unfortunately since gone and screwed the world. In the hands of one generation, the environment and the ethical & moral wisdom of the ages have all been shot to hell. The Boomers as a whole are hopeless...thank God for the progressives still amongst them but as a whole they'll not ever own their destruction or their amorality. Even when well-intentioned.

And -- having been told by the Boomers that humanity can do as it pleases and eff the world -- it's taken a long time for the successive generations to likewise find the humility to realise well yer we DO have to put those cats back in the bag. And yer...we ARE going to have to suck it up and do exactly the opposite of the Boomers, who said never take ownership for anything and do as ye please. We're learning the spiritual truth of taking ownership as the natural outcome of growing up spiritually and moving beyond pooping in our nappies. This is our reality...cleaning up the layer of Boomer poo all over the globe ...and we cannot make any headway until we ourselves take ownership of our own poo.

Meanwhile, our world's bounty and our spiritual bounty (reflected in our wisdom) was all humanity really ever had. In our hubris, we thought we could use Gaia's bounty and likewise use one another. Neither of those is sustainable...but I fear at least half of all the post-Boomer gens have (as the Americans say) also "drunk the Kool-Aid"...you know, the poisoned one that cult leader Jim Jones had his followers drink. Was always fascinated by the authoritarian cult of personality, which leaves me "absolutely" cold and unmoved, LOL.

I think this is the big fat juicy problem here and it's always been the case when we associate something as being this and that.

What I believe is absolutely necessary is to relate what that is or that isn't with what we are ..

There has to be this foundation to build upon fundamentally then we work our way up or down so to speak ..

This is why we can label an apple an apple (matter) and then breakdown fundamentally what an apple is at it's core (excuse the pun, but pun intended) lol.

This is why at the center of oneself there is no need for neti neti, there is no need either for having the debate about is consciousness this or that or does consciousness effect this or that ..

If we work from the foundation of there being only what we are at a grass root level then whatever manifests as this or that and however dense the appearance is or isn't or how self aware these things are or not is irrelevant .

The only relevance here is the discussion about the unique properties that pertain to something that is fundamentally the same as everything else .. so we can have juicy apples and we can have ice cold snowflakes and we can have fierce lions and stupid politicians .. but it's always what we are in expression of these unique properties and qualities ..

Things don't need to be 100% solid or 80% empty space to not be fundamentally what we are ..

When this is realized there is no need to play one thing off over another, one can just acknowledge that the sun is hot, the earth beneath our feet supports our weight, the rain quenches our thirst and such likes .

None of these unique qualities and properties take away their sameness .

x daz x

..AND nothing of the sameness takes away the uniqueness of any thing or any being, either. And that seeming paradox (i.e., that truth) really does capture the magic and the mystery ;)

Ultimately just as you say, it does all come down to awareness and to deeper knowing (apprehension, illumination)...and to remembrance (conscious observation across time or even lifetimes)...which is a deeply moving truth.
The universe changes...collapses...arises...and apparently keeps expanding as well. The multiverse apparently has tonnes of bubble (separate) universes like ours, which we can never reach or enter as we can only exist in a universe like ours which supports life like ours. (Luckily, it seems there ARE loads of similar life forms out there in other galaxies within this universe, LOL...)

But regardless of the possibilities -- very remote but not exactly zero -- that another identical physical universe exists somewhere we can never reach...and regardless of however many quantum alternate timelines (of this universe) arise and may collapse or merge in some other next moment...one thing seems clear. It is our awareness, our individuated consciousness, that is one of the multitudes of unifying points or anchors of what is. So long as we are aware and conscious in this moment, meaning, taking conscious choices from our centre...then we serve to anchor the whole of this reality. It is above all our conscious awareness in this moment and over time (memory, remembrance) that defines and reveals the nature of this reality.

Our memory and our centred awareness stand outside of time and space. Thus we become a source of anomaly...and as we know, it is always the anomalies which reveal the underlying paradoxes, the larger truths of what is. Because anomalies call us to expand and redefine how we conceive of what is. As more and not less, as "both/and" writ large.

It's become self-evident to me that when we are centred in our conscious awareness and being and doing from centre, we become a point of singularity, an anomaly. Thus, we are less impacted by stuff like universe re-instantiation (i.e., if physically destroyed) &/or multiple "timeline" (universe) collapse/merge (at quantum level but leading to different outcomes at our level). We retain a clearer knowledge that at least one other universe or version of the universe was destroyed or collapsed (so, destroyed, LOL).

And there is another implication...that as anomalies, we may be contributing indirectly or directly in greater measure to current outcomes in ways as yet unknown. The observer impact but now the focused, awakened observer impact. Hence, the "absolute" importance of centering in authentic love and of being and doing authentic love in our lives day-to-day. This is actually fairly standard for mystics, right? It is understood that we do all co-create and shape our reality. And it's critical to be aware of this power and to choose wisely, to the highest good of one and all.

But there is yet another implication...we are standing for ownership, transparency, and integrity. And in so doing, we are perhaps doing our part to usher in the age of ownership and transparency. Interestingly, the so-called solution looks a lot like the so-called problem, at first blush. As, you know what that means...the poop is being clearly revealed and it's clear that we are each holding the bag of it. Some folks (individually or collectively) are under mountains of their own poop, in fact. This is why the Chinese symbol for crisis also means opportunity ;) So we are in a transition period, where a lot of folks are kicking up dust and fighting the reality (that there is a bag of poop in their hand and it's everywhere now really, as they've flung it all round in manic desperation, hahaha...). We have to be patient, "keep calm" (LOL) and centred, and stay strong in support of one another And bathe frequently...

Much love & light
7L

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hey there :) Not bad, just dealing with remnant flashbacks of totalitarian times the past few days. Sitting with myself through it and it's tough, LOL. We are closer than you may think and most in the West have no idea how badly it sux to live under the thumb of an authoritarian regime. 7L

Who lives under an authoritarian regime?

Not me, I do not think you do also?

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Who lives under an authoritarian regime?

Not me, I do not think you do also?

Hello John! As of today, we are all still in semi-functional democracies here in the West (LOL). That statement was in regard to dealing with rigid mindsets that adhere to fixed doctrine, whether "secular", "religious", or what have ye.

And it was comparing 1) my experiences with these mindsets today and the real dangers they pose to 2) my flashbacks (very visceral memories across many lifetimes) of having lived under various authoritarian regimes, with different levels of technology but perpetrating the same harms.

Totalitarianism comprises the self-same mindsets, the slavish adherence to doctrine, the rigidity, the scapegoating, and the suppression of all dissent. The difference is the suppression is typically enforced with the boot or the fist, and not just through scapegoating, shunning, and mockery.

Peace & blessings
7L