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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Most Anything > Philosophy & Theory

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  #31  
Old 01-03-2021, 10:43 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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yeah what is really weird is that so many can feel like they have these huge citadels to live in, but all it takes is one person on the outside to see how caged they really are... and on both sides, never in a million years would either stop to think of it any other way, vanity and all that apparently being a fundamental force of nature...
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  #32  
Old 03-03-2021, 05:37 AM
weareunity weareunity is offline
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Thinking that we may find it useful to consider the possibility of the sub conscious functioning as the guardian and initial administrator of a foundation blueprint aiding transition from non-being to being after birth.

This "blueprint" containing information regarding what forms of sustenance and conditions are required for the development of the emerging "self". The subconscious is able to recognise if these forms of sustenance and conditions are actually being successfully provided/absorbed, and if not the subconscious has the capability to instruct/communicate to the emerging "self" that it needs to find and develop compensatory means of providing such sustenance and conditions for "itself".

Such "means" consequently becoming embedded components of subsequent behavioural traits for that "self".

Added as edit:-

It would be a major evolutionary shift, if, in the model as suggested, the role of the subconscious were to be expanded to being concerned not only for the welfare of an individual "self" but also for a collective "self". Perhaps compassion is en route?

Last edited by weareunity : 03-03-2021 at 02:12 PM.
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  #33  
Old 04-03-2021, 09:54 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weareunity
Thinking that we may find it useful to consider the possibility of the sub conscious functioning as the guardian and initial administrator of a foundation blueprint aiding transition from non-being to being after birth.
Added as edit:-

It would be a major evolutionary shift, if, in the model as suggested, the role of the subconscious were to be expanded to being concerned not only for the welfare of an individual "self" but also for a collective "self". Perhaps compassion is en route?

well there is probably some of that going on,,, but I feel that in the subconscious there is also some fear of the unknown, and especially a fear of anything that might lead to 'death'. So such a guardian role would end up alternating between trying to guide and trying to protect. It might not be able to find optimal conditions for expression of self within the context of what it knows, so it would be very much a tradeoff, considering what was thought was reasonably possible against what was thought was desirable.

I also think that not all people think in the same way, at a gross level we have 'males' and 'females' who think differently from each other. And there are probably less obvious distinctions in thought processes... so I don't find it hard to believe that some people might be very interested in the idea of a 'collective self' where as others would deny the idea. In fact I think that things like this is where most of our troubles lie, everyone wants what THEY believe to become the defacto standard for what EVERYONE should believe so that they can feel comfortable and get the most possible credence for believing it... for example those who might believe in a collective self might want everyone to believe in a collective self and the ones who don't might want everyone not to... but there is a strong balance such that neither side can reach their desired end point without things swinging back the other way. The unending friction makes the world go round.
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  #34  
Old 05-03-2021, 11:02 PM
weareunity weareunity is offline
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Hello FallingLeaves,

Laying bare my feelings --and possibly/probably heading for a contradictory fall somewhere soon or further along the line--there are perhaps circumstances in which I would seek to impose upon someone else's free will, albeit without any form of intentionally injurious motivation.-- herein lies part of the pacifist dilemma. Such circumstances I can imagine being associated with the prevention of harm to others-- especially apparently innocent others.

For the most part though respecting the free will of others seems paramount to me.--and for this reason sharing thoughts as speculation and exploration is the how and way I choose to attempt to follow--often stumbling.

There motivations which prompt us to behave in certain ways can be studied as part of the study of behaviour.

An interesting and valuable study Imo , and again Imo, especially so if we choose to first apply it to ourselves.
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  #35  
Old 06-03-2021, 06:07 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weareunity
Hello FallingLeaves,

Laying bare my feelings --and possibly/probably heading for a contradictory fall somewhere soon or further along the line--there are perhaps circumstances in which I would seek to impose upon someone else's free will, albeit without any form of intentionally injurious motivation.

hi wearunity!

what i feel about that is, you have to leave room for other people, but you gotta have some room for yourself too. It isn't all one or all the other. And a part of what each of us does is try to help others so things get a little mixed up. But all that is ok...

There isn't an 'easy' answer as to what to do, you just feel your way through it and stumble along, and sometimes you get enough information to know whether or not you've made a mistake.

There is no such thing as 'absolute' freedom though... just by our very nature of wanting to get along with each other there are going to be rules and other limitations. but that doesn't mean everything has to be a limitation either.

so all that said, in my mind there is room for both sometimes being imposing and other times letting others have free reign. but personally i like to err on the side of letting others follow their own lead. If I wanna say something that might seem harsh I will, but I won't push it on people when they wanna ignore me either.

yeah the wanting to prevent harm from coming to people is a big deal I guess. I feel it too, I just have a different perspective on what is actually harmful than most... I've sorta seen enough at this point to feel that there isn't anything truly harmful hanging around... it is more a matter of our perception that there are a lot of harmful things hanging around. that definitely makes it easier to let others have their own way even when it leads to some kind of personal loss...

study of motivations is an important part of my life. especially my own, in terms of what i think i'm gonna get if i perform some behavior or another and how that effects my choice of what to do or say... vs what i would really like to do or say if only i didn't have some idea about leveraging my own activities in a beneficial way. Sometimes I've had to deliberately say some things that scared me while trying to learn the difference lol.

all of this also applies to the study of what others are doing i think. or maybe it is the other way around, in studying others and then being honest about it you can learn a lot about yourself? oh but maybe it is a little of each. Sigh.

anyway as far as contradictory falls, well people are always disagreeing sooner or later anyway. Two people being on exactly the same page doesn't seem realistic to me any more...

sometimes this means an ending, other times different things are possible. Just depends on where the people involved are at i guess... hard to tell what is what unless one gets there.
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  #36  
Old 07-03-2021, 10:57 PM
weareunity weareunity is offline
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Hello FallingLeaves.

I value having been able to learn of your experiences and thoughts--thanks☺!

Reference "contradictory falls"--was thinking specifically of my own behaviour contradicting that which I espouse/champion.

Cheers.

Last edited by weareunity : 08-03-2021 at 05:20 PM.
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  #37  
Old 12-03-2021, 02:06 AM
weareunity weareunity is offline
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Hello.

The post previous to this makes reference to attempting to practice what we preach, walking the walk etc. We can choose to consider doing so as attempting to establish a personal consistency regarding how we each choose to conduct our own existence. What relevance does this have to the opening post?

By what means can our own personal consistency become harmonised with our growing understanding of the interdependence and interconnection of all "within" the whole of existence?
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  #38  
Old 19-03-2021, 02:12 PM
weareunity weareunity is offline
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Re last paragraph of #37.

What is coming to mind at the moment is best described as a hope--maybe two hopes.:--

1) That the growing understanding referred to helps us all to realise that we are not simply each a part of the audience, but inevitably also playing some part in the performance of the process of existence.

2) That we take on responsibility for our part--individually and collectively.

Cheers.
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  #39  
Old 19-03-2021, 03:23 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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i think a big part of it for me is not placing a lot of frivolous demands on others. e.g. don't consider what one wants as so important that it has to override the wants of others. Especially when one is starting to try to figure out how others should behave...

But at the same time understanding that there also has to be SOMETHING for oneself... otherwise why should there even be a self? But I guess i'm trying to say if the previous statement works for me, why should I deny it to others?
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  #40  
Old 19-03-2021, 04:16 PM
weareunity weareunity is offline
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Perhaps our understanding re interconnection and interdependence is also showing us and all that the welfare of the "self" is inextricably coupled with collective welfare.?
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