Saving God's / 'our churches' - and getting them busy again.

Originally Posted by Gem

I brought up Hillsong before regarding popularity vs. integrity and how scandals make it impossible to regard the Church as social moral pillar. url]

Gem,

Anyone with even a minimal knowledge of Scripture knows that no church or individual can legitimately lay claim to being any representation of a moral pillar……they can only be advocates for the pursuit of good…..however that is defined. This is something that critics accuse the church and ministry of…….that they personally claim to be the representation of good when in fact they can only point to the direction.

Mark 10:18…”Why do you call me good ?” Jesus answered, “No one is good—-except God alone.””

This is the only thing that any spokesperson for the church can say in truth…….

[one-light]

We had a Christening / Baptism - can't remember the last one, and our church lower floor was nearly full - people of all ages.

I said to my young friend who sits near to me, about 40's she is 'voice of an Angel' she has - that was good - she agreed, she's a Minister you know I found out the other week... We were discussing the good service also with another lady who sits near to us, all agreed... I asked her, are you going to be our new Minister, oh we'll have to see, she said - certainly Heaven Sent to help us IMO..

So I wonder if it's better to have the same Minister every week, or different ones - not sure - but 'she is good' and I would certainly help with interesting content if she wanted me to 'the lighthearted sections' etc that she's comfortable with saying.

I said to the Minister of today 'that was NICE..... I said not too long considering you had to fit a Baptism / Christening in - she is one of my most favourite Ministers / good vibes / good smile / good words / confident - creating energy and teaching.

And all in 50 mins, time for coffee - and I think those people of today won't think oh glad that's over - I think they will have enjoyed it 'and some possibly come back' - and that's what we want / people to come back and say to friends - I enjoyed that.

And when I mention having a song sometimes instead of one hymn - this is one of my favourite Elvis songs 'how great thou art' - and no ones making anyone do anything - we just share ideas here, have a good day lovely people looking on.

I'm going to have this played in church when my journey / life plan is completed here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkJVQN9pK1k

[Miss Hepburn]

What a surprise link! Elvis, who we know was raised on Gospel music.

[one-light]

Yes, very important to me this song when I started to go through early stages of Spiritual Awakening nearly a decade ago now - don't do as I did anyone going through this - 'don't hit the rum and beer as I did' - get help / guidance on here.

I hope to say more on God's Mysterious Ways in the near future here, I've been in heavy training the last few years 'on this issue' all those nudges / signs / dreams you get to put you on path, to where you should be going on this beautiful but sometimes difficult planet and journey here.

And I think some of this should be discussed in churches - people do go through this, and it can be extremely difficult...

[BigJohn]

......... resonates to me, like the dream the King had, that could only be interpreted by Daniel.

Originally Posted by one-light

I said to the Minister of today 'that was NICE..... I said not too long considering you had to fit a Baptism / Christening in - she is one of my most favourite Ministers / good vibes / good smile / good words / confident - creating energy and teaching.

Is this an audition process for ministers ? And are they former ministers or current ministers looking for a new church ? Or just new ministers ? If this an auditioning how many have you seen so far ?

[one-light]

Not many new Ministers come through - we discussed this in detail on many Facebook multi church groups, it's 'so many years training' this maybe puts some off, and less come though... It's 5 years training I was told - feeling is maybe 3 years and let them learn as they go - and I've said is this possible on many Church of England posts.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Molearner

“No one is good—-except God alone.””

I believe your above example of justification for misconduct is precisely why the Church is losing relevance in modernity.

If the Church continues making excuses, and that excuse is a core tenet of the church, there are no robust boundary conditions to protect people and Church by its own principle is unsafe and untrustworthy. It's clear to me now that they have an unassailable internal logic that makes misconduct permissible.

If they continue with that ethos, good riddance.

If they realise the kinds justification you presented are caustic to the integral cornerstone of the institution, they might start restoring the foundation and avoid the collapse, but I see now there are scriptural loop-holes about people having no moral aptitude of their own - so it can't be done.

Originally Posted by Gem

I believe your above example of justification for misconduct is precisely why the Church is losing relevance in modernity..

Gem,

Once again easily misunderstood by many. In its truest meaning it means that God is the ultimate source of good,,,,,understood in the same way is love…..a true Christian would not say that there are 7 billion sources of love but that there is one source and innumerable conduits for love……to call yourself good is a recognition of the duality that you are trapped in…….because good only has meaning if it has an opposite…..

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Molearner

In its truest meaning it means that God is the ultimate source of good

I think we're on the same page with that, but there are still the scriptural loopholes that people don't have moral aptitude. The Hillsong example just shows how a representative acts with misconduct and the institution covers it up with the 'hacked' story. They must be aware that the behaviour is ethically questionable and the 'hacked' story is untruthful. People see that and rightly assess that these people engage in misconduct and are dishonest, particularly because the individual concerned has been the subject of other scandals in the past.

If it were me, I'd announce that the church endeavours to uphold wholesome conduct, truthfulness and trust so as to provide a safe environment for everyone. The conduct of the individual concerned doesn't meet these standards so they no longer hold a position. The claim that his Twitter was hacked is being investigated and we will soon know if that claim is or isn't true.

Far worse misconduct and 'cover ups' by the church are of course much more corrosive, and not uncommon, and they all know who the creepers are within their own circles. The whole thing needs to be stripped back, sandblasted, reinforced and given a rustproof coat.

Tay Tay Tuesday is fantasic and I love it, but to use a figure of speech, it's 'lipstick on a pig'. It isn't doing anything to rectify the underlying decay.