Is it wrong to enjoy somebody getting "their karma?"

Another way of looking at this. When someone commits suicide do we say that they got what they deserved ? On the contrary, we can experience collective guilt for not having been our brother’s keeper. Is this not also true in cases of crime, etc ? If we had decent and competent penal systems we could believe that those convicted of crime are finally getting a chance to get help……

[kris]

It is not beneficial to enjoy somebody getting "their karma".

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by kris

It is not beneficial to enjoy somebody getting "their karma".

You're right, but I still do...with a thought afterwards that is nicer. Could be, "I hope he learns to not do that anymore."
I think even the saints in heaven might be laughing at the bank robber that keeps getting caught
and gets outta jail and keeps doing it over and over, life after life.

There are WAY worse thoughts people have that would be good to stop.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Gem

To me, at least, spirituality is neutral, and it's not really about the kamma you generated in the past that is now fated on your path. The idea is let the inevitable be, stop generating new kamma and remain neutral as the old 'sankaras' expire.

Same for me as well Actually becomes a question of spirituality versus the physical. I certainly understand the physical experience and catch myself doing it and also point out the nature of, it is unending. You find you are waiting for the enjoyment that will happen again. It doesn't stop realize it. You realize you already feel the same way about it. We may even be waiting to enjoy others getting their karma later on but as said, spiritually it is neutral. Btw, some may even be wanting others to get their karma right now. But of course it can be controlled. Of course we are not neutral. But let's be clear, are we talking about and include a spiritual perspective or ignore it. If anything what does spirituality say. What does divine say?

So are we saying spiritually, from our perspective, that spiritually is it ok?

Is spirituality wrong then?

So spiritually it is ok to enjoy it.

The point is stop generating old kamma.

Keep in mind we get karma back.

A full conversation to be sure.

Something I realized some time ago but didn't take advantage of, karma gives every opportunity to stop generating old karma. But most times we have to wait for reincarnation.

Part of the problem is that we are stuck in letting happiness be what determines the quality of life. To me happiness is contingent on things happening. This is the intrinsic essence of karma. Dependent on the happenings of life.

If we claim or aspire to be spiritual we should strive to experience joy. It is the comfort of a higher level…..nothing to do with acquisitions or favorable outcomes…..no longer a slave to karma as being some default position…….

Feelings are spontaneous in nature. We do not have an internal debate with ourselves whether to laugh or cry or smile. Our response is a product of our programming. If we are programmed differently our response can be different. So, yes, it is OK to respond as you do. It is a reflection of your current level…..:)

[JustBe]

You make some very valuable points molearner.

Feelings are temporary. The story we continue to tell ourselves in defence of those feelings is what often accumulates as a whole context.

Another level of yourself could simply witness the feeling, let the story of why you feel enjoyment be, stop running that programme and know that true and lasting joy has no reason to be. It’s a natural arising of simply being you from your true state.

Your right the programming as you can see in this thread, by those in favour, try to make it right in their mind. Looking for ways to feel ok as they feel.

Reasoning with their minds.

Which then, keeps things alive in the body mind reactions.

[Starman]

Is this thread actually about vengeance or revenge? If I am happy that someone got the discomfort which I think they deserved then I am accessing my feelings on revenge. In today’s world right and wrong are largely situational, and although there are definite things that are right and definite things that are wrong, once the feelings of joy has been expressed it is very hard to unexpressed it, but we can correct ourselves and say something like “I feel sorry for that person even though they got what I think they deserved.”.

So a person may think it is wrong to feel joy about someone else’s discomfort because of their prior behavior but that kind of thinking does not change the joy felt in that person’s heart. Victims in court are satisfied when they think “justice” has been served. They are happy when someone gets what they think that person deserved.

Personally, I do not believe that life is based on what we deserve. Bad things happen to good people. I feel like the concept of forgiveness might be appropriate to this discussion. Forgiveness does not mean that there is no consequence for a person’s actions. In my opinion pure spirit is neutral, but the reflective ebb and flow of creation is the impetus for karma. The universe balances itself by what we call “karma.”

We create karma with our thoughts, words, and our behavior or deeds. But a person can somewhat escape karma if they turn all of their actions over to pure spirit, keep their mind quiet, do selfless service on a regular basis to create desirable karma, etc. Some spiritual teachers say that you can not escape karma but you can mitigate it by meeting it head on; like throwing a ball against the wall and as it is returning to you, you run towards it to meet it while practicing genuine spiritual surrender.

[eezi-ulgen]

Originally Posted by Starman

Is this thread actually about vengeance or revenge?

That is how I interpreted the OP.

(Excerpt from post #1)I think alot of it depends on how they treated you.

So I only seen it as a tit for tat like scenario.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Starman

We create karma with our thoughts, words, and our behavior or deeds

We tend to imagine it as you generate kamma and you experience the outcomes, and what one thinks, says and does is existent withing the realm of effects, but all these are motivated in some way, so we site 'cause' at volition.

With that understanding we don't consider the things that happen to us as 'our kamma'. We only consider how we react and the nature of the volition we generate as the 'uncaused cause'. It's reasonable to believe that our experiences are caused by our volition - and we might see this as optional choices with inevitable consequences - but it's unreasonable to believe that our experiences determine our volition because the manner in which we react to experience, if we react at all, is not inevitable.

This implies the gap in cycle of cause and effect exists at the level of volition and the cessation of volition is precisely the end of kamma, and that's what people actually mean when they say 'surrender'.