I am so confused

[LadyMay]

You have feelings of what you're *supposed* to believe, and then you have feelings of what your spirit is really saying to you. And the two are struggling against each other.

I find Morpheus unhelpful with that derisive 'gnostic' comment. ThatMan, you don't need to explain yourself and your Christian conviction and habit, but if you *really* are looking for an orthodox answer, then this forum may not be the right one for you. Here there are many who are easy-going or esoteric Christians, who see things differently to the struggles you find yourself with.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

Baptised and raised as an orthodox! Are you an orthodox? If you are not, according to our dogma, you won't make it to God!

I've read a little bit about the gnostics, their stories make little sense to me.

It's such a crime to ask questions and try to understand??? Do I really have to have some hidden agenda, I, who I am very sick and close to die, I who was offered power, money and even healing only to join a secret club, don't think so!!

As I have 'dug' into the Bible, it seems at least the first five books were probably written during the Jewish diaspora in Babylon.

Then if you look at the creation accounts and the flood accounts in Hebrew, it becomes very apparent there are several different people writing. As the Talmud emerged from Babylon, I also suspect at least the first five books of the Bible were written in a style that was much improved on and used in the Talmud. Other words: opinions are being solicited.

[sky]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

As for incest in the Bible:

Adam and Eve produced off spring. It is obvious that the sons had sex with their sisters.


Prudent people will proclaim INCEST but........................
if you look deeply in virtually all the other religions, their accounts of first humans resonate with incest. You also have some religions that have no accounts of how humans got here........ nor do they have any accounts of how 'things all began'.

The story of Lot’s daughters in Genesis 19, seducing their father and bearing sons, which offers no (certainly no explicit) reproof. The daughters even draw attention to incest by calling their sons “Moab” (Hebrew for “from the father”) and “Ben-Ammi” (“son of my people.)

Oh dear, the excuse of how it all began cannot be appropriate here.


David’s son Amnon becomes obsessed with and rapes his sister Tamar. This event is certainly depicted as villainous and cruel on Amnon’s part but Tamar’s words, as she tries to prevent the rape, suggest sibling marriage is an option.

And many more examples to be found.....

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

As I have 'dug' into the Bible, it seems at least the first five books were probably written during the Jewish diaspora in Babylon.

Then if you look at the creation accounts and the flood accounts in Hebrew, it becomes very apparent there are several different people writing. As the Talmud emerged from Babylon, I also suspect at least the first five books of the Bible were written in a style that was much improved on and used in the Talmud. Other words: opinions are being solicited.

If you meditate on what I wrote, hopefully it all starts to make sense.


► First - the first five books were written in a style that would be improved on by others. Those books were probably written when the Jews were deported to Babylon.

►► Second - While in Babylon, the writing style was improved on as expressed in the Babylonian Talmud.

►►► Third - Other cultures adopted that writing style. One that used it was Aristotle as expressed in his book "METAPHYSICS".

The writing style, as expressed in the creation accounts and flood accounts, solicited other people's opinions or viewpoints. This was advanced in the Talmud where the name of the one providing a comment or opinion is recorded.

In Aristotle's "METAPHYSICS", the same writing style is expressed.


In short, the first 5 books of the Bible, might be the first Metaphysical books ever written!

[Altair]

Originally Posted by LadyMay

You have feelings of what you're *supposed* to believe, and then you have feelings of what your spirit is really saying to you. And the two are struggling against each other.

I find Morpheus unhelpful with that derisive 'gnostic' comment. ThatMan, you don't need to explain yourself and your Christian conviction and habit, but if you *really* are looking for an orthodox answer, then this forum may not be the right one for you. Here there are many who are easy-going or esoteric Christians, who see things differently to the struggles you find yourself with.

I have to disagree with you LadyMay. When one follows the Bible it does seem to indicate exclusivism, not inclusivism. This is why quite a lot of Christians favour exclusivism.
It may () not come across as tolerant or in alignment with the pluralistic character of modern spirituality though.

Gnostic beliefs are definitely on a whole different page than mainstream Christianity.
Gnosticism is more similar to some eastern religions; ''world is bad, we need to escape''

Here are six differences between the two: https://www.theaquilareport.com/gnos...-christianity/

[markings]

The quoted texts are injunctions against incestuous relationships, with good reason. They may just be formulated in an archaic way.

Originally Posted by ThatMan

The more I study the biblical scriptures, in special the old testament, the more I feel confused and not able to understand.. I am only able to see man trying to write his own understanding about God.
......

Does this makes any sense? There are too many things like this... Sometimes I don't know in what to believe anymore... I am just a simple man.

Perhaps you are seeing it as accurately as any other way to see it. Perhaps that is what the scriptures are, a tome of man trying to understand God. Perhaps what you are seeing and experiencing is the confusion of man as it tries to understand God. That is what seems to make some sense to me.

Whatever conception or name one gives it, Tao, God, The Universe, it is indeed a mystery beyond the capacity of the simple human mind. The fools fool themselves if they believe they can fully understand it with their mind alone. Thoughts may be fine for examining the details of the individual myriad forms, but trying to comprehend the full mystery of the mind of God with thoughts alone is like trying to comprehend an ocean by examining one drop at a time. Even if they eventually do examine all the drops, they still may not have seen or experienced an ocean. Recognition of the simplicity of one's own mind, contrasted against the vastness and depth of the mystery, can make one feel inadequate to the experience of life. One comes to feel like a unfortunate victim of a shipwreck, floating helplessly in their lifeboat upon the vast ocean, wondering if God cares, or is even there.

There are plenty who will tell one they know what one should believe. Not having the answers themselves, there are plenty who will follow what they tell them without questioning it. But as soon as they start to question, they become confused. A lost and fearful feeling place in which to find oneself, but perhaps the most honest place to be in that moment.

(2) Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All." Gospel of Thomas

“Rabbit's clever," said Pooh thoughtfully.
"Yes," said Piglet, "Rabbit's clever."
"And he has Brain."
"Yes," said Piglet, "Rabbit has Brain."
There was a long silence.
"I suppose," said Pooh, "that that's why he never understands anything.”
― A.A. Milne, Winnie-the-Pooh

Originally Posted by ThatMan

The more I study the biblical scriptures, in special the old testament, the more I feel confused and not able to understand.. I am only able to see man trying to write his own understanding about God.

Deuteronomy 27:22 Cursed is the one who lies with his sister, the daughter of his father or the daughter of his mother.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!

Genesis 17:15-16 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

Genesis 20:12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

Ezekiel 18:20 "..The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son.."

Exodus 20:5 "..for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;.."


Does this makes any sense? There are too many things like this... Sometimes I don't know in what to believe anymore... I am just a simple man.

In your Ezekial and Exodus-- It does not contradict.
The reality of Exodus is---The Father( parent) hands down the same wicked practices to their children. One of Satans best tools--Mislead the parents and they will in turn hand it to their children. Its his best tool today as well. 99% of all religion does not have the true God. They are mislead.

[hallow]

I was reading though the post, it all seems to up to personal translation "believe what works for your personal mindset". Is this a 6 or a 9??? Depends on how you look at it. That's the game we play when it comes to religion. The Bible has a lot of good guidelines. But it shouldn't be taking word for word. So much of it is up to interpretation. If God didn't want us to think for ourselves he would have made us so we couldn't.

[Jyotir]

The reason for the confusion is in the attempted limiting of the divine by reading scripture as a lawyer would.

When you read scripture, just accept everything as true.

There is clarity in this approach (faith supervening mind/mental reasoning) even if, or especially because it is not logical or rational.

~ J