What if the native Americans were never invaded?

Originally Posted by Electric_Dreams

Thanks for explaining elisi :)

It is sad how past misdeeds still affect the present day...but I totally get it. Id be pretty narked if I had lost all my natural heritage and day to day spirituality. Im sad that britain was invaded and the Celts have long vanished and our welsh language is almost instinct...I dont hate the anglo saxons for it, but maybe I would be bitter if it happened as recently as what happened to american natives.

my dad's father was born in swansea. daddy used to sing welsh lullabyes to me. what a difficult language. but i loved the sound.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by elisi

actually, it was the spanish that brought horses here. when the natives saw them they thought the riders on these creatures were monsters.

Yes it was DeSoto and he was a monster for sure. I learned about him thru the books by Michael and Kathleen Gear. Before reading their books, I, like the op, saw the first Americans way of life as flawless but soon I learned that it included torturing and fighting amongst tribes and many strange beliefs with strange outcomes.
I still respect them, I just no longer revere them.

some people are careful not to offend me when we're on the subject. (white man's guilt) lol

but fact is, they are like any other peoples. the cherokee were wealthy and owned plantations AND slaves. the comanche were always attacking someone. we had wars with the pawnee-they were our sworn enemy.

but....in spite of the dark side, i still feel we need to share what we know about taking care of mother earth and living a balanced life.

ps i LOVE the gears.

Originally Posted by Electric_Dreams

Thanks for explaining elisi :)

It is sad how past misdeeds still affect the present day...but I totally get it. Id be pretty narked if I had lost all my natural heritage and day to day spirituality. Im sad that britain was invaded and the Celts have long vanished and our welsh language is almost instinct...I dont hate the anglo saxons for it, but maybe I would be bitter if it happened as recently as what happened to american natives.

The Celts were invaders. They originated from what we now call Eastern Europe, around Russia.

The Anglo-Saxons were not even a race. They were at least two seperate races of foreign invaders, the Angles and the Saxons, both of which came from Northern Europe, round about the area we now call Germany. They had to contend with the Romans, who were not necessarily from the bit we now call Italy, because the Romans were not a race either, they were more like a union or alliance, controlled from Rome but actually made up of people from pretty much everywhere on this side of the planet, including the Celts, Angles and Saxons. The Vikings also came along to invade too, at various times and bringing various cultural influences, seeing as they too had been all mixed with the Celts and the Romans and all manner of others. Still, at least the Normans eventually came and sorted it all out, and brought some sense of order in the 11th century. They came from the bit we now call France of course, except not really, because they were mostly made up of nomadic tribes from further north (hence Nor-man, North-man) where the Vikings came from, who were influenced by the Celts from Eastern Europe. Those same Celts that were nomadic, and quite probably headed into Asia too, and will have shared their ideas and culture there, while learning also from the people they found there, who millenia ago also migrated to the bit we now call America, from the bit we now call India, hence why native Americans used to be called American Indians (because their blood line is influenced from that region).

So the Celts were not the original British, nor were the Angles or Saxons, and the Celts were not ousted, they just moved about which is what the Celts naturally did. Nowadays it is easy to think in terms of specific cultures and specific races, because we've sliced the world up and conveniently labelled each piece, but that's a fairly recent concept. In bygone times, there were no countries, just land populated by nomadic tribes, and being nomadic, they often met and interacted with and influenced each other. Sometimes of course they fought, and claimed a patch of land for a while, until either it no longer suited them, or another tribe came and fought them and moved them on (or more likely, integrated them and bred with them). Incidentally, this is exactly the same as is still happening today. We like to have nations, and races, and convenient labels, but there's always (yes literally always) a war somewhere in the world. The map of Europe has changed several times in my lifetime alone, and is looking set to change ago imminently if the tensions in Russia and Ukraine aren't resolved. And of course we still have mass migrations in search of resources. Since the effective collapse of the British Empire, we've had a many Asian folks moving in, WW2 saw us receive an influx of Polish people, and the creation of the EU has seen an influx of people from EU member states. The archeologists of the future might define these things as invasions, but they are not, they are just people moving about as people do. Culture is changing too. When I was a kid takeaway food meant fish and chips. Now it is Chinese, Indian, Turkish, Greek, fusions of many different things. Our music is changing, our ideas of right and wrong, our attitude in many different areas. Exactly the same as would have been the case millenia ago around the time of the Celts, the Angles and the Saxons etc. Its not a negative thing. We're all learning from each other now, just as was the case millenia ago.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by elisi

some people are careful not to offend me when we're on the subject. (white man's guilt) lol

but fact is, they are like any other peoples. the cherokee were wealthy and owned plantations AND slaves. the comanche were always attacking someone. we had wars with the pawnee-they were our sworn enemy.

but....in spite of the dark side, i still feel we need to share what we know about taking care of mother earth and living a balanced life.

ps i LOVE the gears.

I would never purposely offend. I also wouldn't call it a dark side because the reasons behind what they did, that we consider dark, were noble and they also have much to teach us along with their connection with nature.

It was such an exciting time of my life reading the Gears about all this. I'm glad hear of someone here who has heard of them.

[linen53]

The appaloosa horse is the only true North American horse and they were tamed by the Native Americans. The rest were all imports.

Native Americans have a different culture. What they thought was appropriate the whites thought was rude, inconsiderate and inhospitable. It was a cultural barrier. It was sad. The First Americans (the natives) were trampled down into the dirt.

i respectfully disagree-the spanish brought horses to the na's-the breed was mostly andalusian which many were spotted.

i'm sure after the na's became familiar with them, they became a favorite and were trained.

i only know this because a friend of mine raises appaloosas and knows their history inside and out.

but i would be interested in any link you can provide.

[linen53]

Sorry, elisi, that's just what I learned. I had an appaloosa once and the research I did said they were the only horse originally from North America. Of course that was before the internet and my research was done by "hand". I stand corrected.

no problem....i had a palomino and buckskin myself. my favorite animal.

[linen53]

Originally Posted by WhiteWarrior

Now imagine a couple from a reservation, with children, going to a town anywhere else in New Mexico to have a dinner in a restaurant. Think they would be treated nicely by the white guys?

I once had a coworker, who married a woman in the US. She was of asian heritage. According to my coworker, she refused to leave the car at any gas station in the entire southern USA. Now consider how a rez girl would feel.

I can start telling my Indian heritage in this incarnation which I won't do because it really isn't relevant.

Furthermore, who can say they were not living an incarnation during the time when this horrible era happened. Or we could have been part of the Anglo attacking force. My point is it is in the past and needs to be put to rest.

I lived a horrible childhood and it happened to me not my great ancestors. It is in our best interest to get through our healings in our own back yard so we can move on to a higher vibration.