On Truth and Subjectivity

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Seawolf

That sounds great! When I'm depressed I retreat from everyone but I've been getting out there now. There are all kinds of interesting and fun people if I just make a little effort to find them. The internet might give a little social esteem but not very much.

For me acceptance means being able to observe thoughts with love.

All kinds of negative emotions were taking over my life until I heard about Tolle. I don't think he's the bees knees or anything, but I respect him because I was introduced to observing. Things have been getting better since then. Now I'm starting to be able to feel kindness towards my thoughts and see them as information instead of totally identifying with them and been controlled by them.

Beliefs come from our thoughts and emotions, but I don't have to accept everything I think and feel as truth. I don't think a term like 'My Truth' is correct because it's actually just my beliefs. I don't know if my spiritual beliefs are true or not and it doesn't seem important to me. I'm more interested if something works. Most wars seem to be about beliefs and also most needless war inside people's minds. Meditation is actually saving people's lives now. How many wars are started by religious people who meditate? Not many I imagine, it's mostly by people who believe in gods. They feel entitled and right, but I doubt we really know anything or have as much right as we think. No one ever thinks of themselves as the problem.

Oh yea .. I see... the impersonal phenomena of thoughts. That to me is objectivity, and objectivity is related to truth, and in so saying, the truth is in the way of seeing. I guess that's why Tao means The Way. Indeed it see as information, data... good idea. AND seeing kindly is totally my thang actually.

It isn't really important if beliefs are true or not. Life will show they are not true and we'll change them over time. Religion is the basis for war, and only God can justify it. Actually it's greed, but they can't admit that, so 'God'.

Meditation is a bit misconstrued, and most of what they call meditation is actually imagination and the persuit of paranormal ability, but such abilities are really just an aside, and not the purpose; it is to see it as it is and not as you want it to be. People will disagree and say there are many kinds and reasons for meditation, but then again people will say it's 'your truth' by the same token.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Gem

Oh yea .. I see... the impersonal phenomena of thoughts. That to me is objectivity, and objectivity is related to truth, and in so saying, the truth is in the way of seeing. I guess that's why Tao means The Way. Indeed it see as information, data... good idea. AND seeing kindly is totally my thang actually.

It isn't really important if beliefs are true or not. Life will show they are not true and we'll change them over time. Religion is the basis for war, and only God can justify it. Actually it's greed, but they can't admit that, so 'God'.

Meditation is a bit misconstrued, and most of what they call meditation is actually imagination and the persuit of paranormal ability, but such abilities are really just an aside, and not the purpose; it is to see it as it is and not as you want it to be. People will disagree and say there are many kinds and reasons for meditation, but then again people will say it's 'your truth' by the same token.

I've noticed that more doctors are recognizing yoga and meditation here, along with healthy eating, exercise, vitamins and herbal supplements. One heart surgeon tried it with her heart patients and all but one recovered, now she's teaching other doctors about it. I'm sure there lots of fad meditation ideas that appeals to the young, you can always expect things like that. There are always people that try to make money off the latest thing, and appeal to people's fears and desires to make lots of money.

I've heard Buddhist monks use meditation because they believe it heals themselves and the world. That appeals to me because it seems like the right attitude. Who knew they were actually working hard for us, I always thought they were trying to 'get away from it all'.

That's cool we have the same idea about thought as information and approaching it with kindness. I'm still confused about the inner child thing, sometimes I think my inner child still hates me. I guess I just have to give it more time and be patient. Or I could be completely wrong, I don't know.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Seawolf

I've noticed that more doctors are recognizing yoga and meditation here, along with healthy eating, exercise, vitamins and herbal supplements. One heart surgeon tried it with her heart patients and all but one recovered, now she's teaching other doctors about it. I'm sure there lots of fad meditation ideas that appeals to the young, you can always expect things like that. There are always people that try to make money off the latest thing, and appeal to people's fears and desires to make lots of money.

I've heard Buddhist monks use meditation because they believe it heals themselves and the world. That appeals to me because it seems like the right attitude. Who knew they were actually working hard for us, I always thought they were trying to 'get away from it all'.

That's cool we have the same idea about thought as information and approaching it with kindness. I'm still confused about the inner child thing, sometimes I think my inner child still hates me. I guess I just have to give it more time and be patient. Or I could be completely wrong, I don't know.

I don't anythng about medicine or herbal remedies, but have studies martial arts and the forms of chi, which was actually derived from the yogis of ancient india, and yoga is holistically mind body and spirit.

The real pure intention is to be more wholesome, greater tollerance compassion kindness and other virtues, but nothing can be gained by that, the desire for gain is detrimental and can never be sated, for anything gained is impermanant and will be lost, and all the LOA claims may be true, but is essentially for the sake of frivolous pleasure, and indeed, healing is the pure motivation which comes from the greater good.

Inner child at SF, it's not the place for it, there are no controls which enable protection and safety. I'm concerned that general discussion on it as a topic will turn into a personal thing about a particular persons child, and hack pseudo therapists will make a mess of things; that's almost inevitable at SF.

[Seawolf]

I understand. I really need to talk to a professional about something like that or in a group lead by a professional. I guess nothing like that exists on the internet. It's too dangerous a format for something so deep.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Seawolf

I understand. I really need to talk to a professional about something like that or in a group lead by a professional. I guess nothing like that exists on the internet. It's too dangerous a format for something so deep.

There's good books about it, but again, one has to be discerning because 'spiritual' isn't indicative of expertise, but it's always good to do some research, even go to the library.