The concept of "trust"

Originally Posted by Mart

Ask with a pure heart and you shall be given, knock and the door will be opened. There is nothing to be afraid of except God's rejection and God never rejects Love and he loves to be trusted and surrendered to - trust.

I really like your explanation Mart - it seems obvious when reading your post that you've been on a bit of an internal spiritual journey lately? And then all the thoughts and realisations come out as a result...

As all surrender unto Me, I reward them accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Pritha. (B-Gita 4.11)

Gouranga,

your servant,

Das

I like your explanations too Dasa, they are always very warm and have an air of wisdom and serenity about them, i struggle to remember to stay humble, the exitement or annoyance or desire or fear gets the better of me but less and less so but you are always humble and encouraging in your opinions, so thank you. Could i ask, have you experienced Krishna conciousness or are you there right now?

Originally Posted by Mart

Could i ask, have you experienced Krishna conciousness or are you there right now?

Thanks Mart

I have had times in my life when I have experienced a little bit of Krishna consciousness, and those have genuinely been the best times in my life. Sadly I'm not always in that state in mind, and so my mission at the moment is to keep working on it untill my relationship with Krishna becomes a 24 hour thing. Not just a transcendental 5 minutes, when I'm having a 'good' day, once every few months ...

Once you've had a taste though, you just can't go back because nothing else has anything like the same amount of real spiritual nourishment. All it takes is a little trust in the process at the onset.

Would you have any similar feelings from reading the Gita?

Reading the Gita has been like bathing my mind and heart in pure love, it is such a beautifully written piece, so soothing in that it answers any question, it soothes any doubt it calms any fear that you could possibly have. Its funny though, i have read it before several times and although i have loved it, I have not understood it in the way i am understanding it now. This is principally because i have always held back from trusting what it says implicitly. Opening myself to it and acting on it as if it were true has proved to me that God exists and that the more i trust in God the better things become and the more I see truth in everything. For the last few years i had been attempting to view the world as being a physical manifestation of my subconcious, so that anyone i met was an aspect of myself. if i found someone difficult to get on with i worked on it because i reasoned to give up on anyone was to give up on myself. I liked this way of thinking and it worked to an extent in helping me to be more loving of others but there was a glass ceiling, i could not trust myself enough to fully believe i was in control. Putting my trust in God as a father figure, who will help me if i ask for help and don't struggle, has been the final part of the jigsaw for me and now i can see that all i need to do is surrender and it is as if i become master of my universe. I think God is my highest self and everyone elses highest self, to totally trust God is to totally trust myself and to totally trust everyone else.

I see metaphors for this everywhere. When i change my sons nappy, if he struggles it is traumatic and i have to pin him down, the more he struggles the tighter i must hold him. If he doesn't struggle and lets me do what i need to do i can change his nappy in 20 seconds and we can chat and have fun while i do it. This really crystalises in my mind what i need to do in life, i think of myself as being my son and God as being me. I know i love my son and would never hurt him. My son feels hurt when i have to hold him down and so trusts me less and struggles more, maybe he thinks i am hurting him out of malice but i'm just holding him down so he doesn't get poo everywhere. By visualising life as being a metaphor of this process of trust and struggle i am finding it easier to remember to trust and surrender, because whenever my son is loving and trusting of me there is nothing i won't do for him.

All life is just a test of your ability to trust your highest self - God. By placing your trust in God you are placing your trust in your highest self and the highest selves of everyone and everything. We are all just different aspects of God, experiencing ourself so that we can grow in understanding, escape the fear that won't allow us to settle and return to wisdom bliss. To achieve this you must acknowledge your highest self, i think this is what seperates us from perfection. If you are pure in heart there is no blasphemy in acknowledging this - Jesus said I am the way, follow me, he also said that we would find heaven when we are able to shed our clothes and dance naked around the fire of our shame -Gopsel of Thomas. It is our shame that stops us acknowleding what we really are.

What do you reckon?

Originally Posted by Mart

Reading the Gita has been like bathing my mind and heart in pure love, it is such a beautifully written piece, so soothing in that it answers any question, it soothes any doubt it calms any fear that you could possibly have. Its funny though, i have read it before several times and although i have loved it, I have not understood it in the way i am understanding it now.

I can totally empathise with you on this one - more than any other book I've read the Gita seems to have a nack of revealing different levels of truth on each reading, according to the level of consciousness you come to the verses with and no matter how many times you read them. Especially if you've tried to put the theory into practice in the times in between.

Originally Posted by Mart

I think God is my highest self and everyone elses highest self, to totally trust God is to totally trust myself and to totally trust everyone else.

In one sense God is 'within us' I feel, but I wouldn't say that it in the sense that one day we might 'become God'. As Krishna says in Gita:

The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind.
(Bhagavad-Gita 15.7)

In this verse the identity of the living being is clearly given. The living entity is the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord - eternally. It is not that he assumes individuality in his conditional life and in his liberated state becomes one with the Supreme Lord. He is eternally fragmented. It is clearly said in the sanskrit, 'sanatanah'. According to the Vedic version, the Supreme Lord manifests and expands Himself in innumerable expansions, of which the primary expansions are called vishnu-tattva and the secondary expansions are called the living entities. In other words, the vishnu-tattva is the personal expansion, and the living entities are the separated expansions. By His personal expansion, He is manifested in various forms like Lord Rama, Nrisimhadeva, Vishnumurti and all the predominating Deities in the Vaikuntha planets. The separated expansions, the living entities, are eternally servitors. The personal expansions of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the individual identities of the Godhead, are always present. Similarly, the separated expansions of living entities have their identities. As fragmental parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord, the living entities also have fragmental portions of His qualities, of which independence is one. Every living entity, as an individual soul, has his personal individuality and a minute form of independence. By misuse of that independence one becomes a conditioned soul, and by proper use of independence he is always liberated. In either case, he is qualitatively eternal, as the Supreme Lord is. In his liberated state he is freed from this material condition, and he is under the engagement of transcendental service unto the Lord; in his conditioned life he is dominated by the material modes of nature, and he forgets the transcendental loving service of the Lord. As a result, he has to struggle very hard to maintain his existence in the material world.

The words mamaivamsah ("fragmental parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord") are also very significant. The fragmental portion of the Supreme Lord is not like some material broken part. We have already understood in the Second Chapter that the spirit cannot be cut into pieces. This fragment is not materially conceived. It is not like matter, which can be cut into pieces and joined together again. That conception is not applicable here, because the Sanskrit word sanatana ("eternal") is used. The fragmental portion is eternal. It is also stated in the beginning of the Second Chapter that in each and every individual body the fragmental portion of the Supreme Lord is present (dehino 'smin yatha dehe). That fragmental portion, when liberated from the bodily entanglement, revives its original spiritual body in the spiritual sky in a spiritual planet and enjoys association with the Supreme Lord. It is, however, understood here that the living entity, being the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, is qualitatively one with the Lord, just as the parts and parcels of gold are also gold.

Originally Posted by Mart

By visualising life as being a metaphor of this process of trust and struggle i am finding it easier to remember to trust and surrender, because whenever my son is loving and trusting of me there is nothing i won't do for him.

I like your analogy there - I wonder how we must look in the eyes of the Supreme person? But then I suppose the reality is beyond our imagination. I remember the Gospel of Thomas had some interesting philosophy in there - brings a bit of extra light to things, but it was ages since I read it. It even inspired a film I heard once???

Peace, Love & Gouranga,

Your servant,

Das