The dark side of responsibility.

[Honza]

I have had an insight into the workings of the world. The harshness of life may be inextricably linked with our own divine self-responsibility. The new spirituality often teaches us that we are 100% responsible for what happens to us.

Why then do we suffer from Covid, old age, illness, poverty, wars, disasters etc.? Where does the harshness of life spring from? The old teachings said it is because we fell from grace - which is part and parcel of our own personal responsibility too.

Consider this - responsibility can swing into the dark side and conversely can be on the light side too. If we are responsible for ourselves and by extension for what happens in the world, then are we sure our responsibility is healthy?

What if the faculty of responsibility itself was slowly slipping into darkness? That might explain why so much wrong exists in the world.

Originally Posted by Honza

Consider this - responsibility can swing into the dark side and conversely can be on the light side too. If we are responsible for ourselves and by extension for what happens in the world, then are we sure our responsibility is healthy?.

I don't understand.
If we admit responsibility for something we did wrong, how could that be unhealthy?

[FallingLeaves]

the problem is we aren't... as a people we are choosing to remain in the dark for a lot of vain reasons and won't look at the light long enough to realize how wrong we really are. And then in the ignorance we have chosen for ourselves, we foolishly call ourselves right...

Of course if you won't take a chance and admit you are wrong you can never take responsibility for being wrong and actually repent. Instead you think you are taking responsibility for being right with all the ego bloating and chest pounding and pride that goes along with.

I think honza may be thinking along similar lines, and wondering if such a situation is actually healthy?

Personally I don't think so, but, then again, what do I know?

[charly233]

On the one hand it is.the Self Hater or negative ego that says we are uniquely responsible for everything including our pain. On the other hand we are gods who are indeed 100 per cent responsible for creating everything in the universe.

Somehow it would appear that both of these statements are true at the same time.

This is a divine mystery that can only be comprehended by the mind when it is embraced by the Heart.

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

the problem is we aren't... as a people we are choosing to remain in the dark for a lot of vain reasons and won't look at the light long enough to realize how wrong we really are. And then in the ignorance we have chosen for ourselves, we foolishly call ourselves right...

Oh, I didn't think it was about we as a collective. I was using 'we' as in 'we individually'.
He did say "workings of the world" though, I should have picked up on that as being collective.

Originally Posted by Honza

I have had an insight into the workings of the world. The harshness of life may be inextricably linked with our own divine self-responsibility.

I think this is true if taken as individuals.

I am not sure about as a collective, though would like to hear your thoughts or examples you had in mind.

[AngelBlue]

To Honza.
In answer to your question I honestly don't know.
Yes , we have failings, and granted we are wholeheartedly responsible for our own actions or responsible to prevent or encourage actions around us.
From my belief we are all here to learn because we did indeed fall short of perfection !
On the other hand, I don't know whether covid, Wars, natural disasters are sent as a punishment as such. I think maybe they are sent to make us stronger ?
I think you are far more "in tune" than I am.
I think most, if not all of us would wish we could be given the answers.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by dreamt

Oh, I didn't think it was about we as a collective. I was using 'we' as in 'we individually'.
He did say "workings of the world" though, I should have picked up on that as being collective.

well it seems to me that if you say the collective does something specific, that means the individuals within the collective are following suit? So to say that 'we' are doing something is also to say what any individual within the 'we' is likely to be doing, if they follow the normal conventions for the 'we'.

And it is very difficult not to pick some convention out of the 'we' to follow... even when you appear to be bucking it, you are just following the conventions set by other members of the 'we' who had chosen to do the same. And none of it seems any better than all the rest once you hit a certain point...

So again, to answer the question for the 'we' also answers the question for the vast majority of individuals.

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

well it seems to me that if you say the collective does something specific, that means the individuals within the collective are following suit?

I get what you're saying.

To get back to what you said that we aren't taking responsibility for things... I suppose we are to take responsiblity for things our ancestors might have done, in the sense of our own family.

As for bigger than that, I'm not sure, unless for example we(individually) at some point were in support of war for example, then later changed our mind.
I have always been against war of any kind, so to take responsiblity for wars the government supported or got involved with, would not feel appropriate, but interested to hear other views on it.

[Redchic12]

I don’t believe for one minute we were given punishments like Covid and disasters because we fell from grace, as Honza stated. Firstly because you have to ask yourself, WHO would punish us? If there was a god, then he/she wouldn’t dish out punishment to anyone, because they are only filled with love. And, secondly natural disasters, I feel are happening because of our lack of respect to the earth and nature.

[Redchic12]

Just to add, we can’t be totally responsible for how our choices affect the rest of the world. We can only try and make choices with the RIGHT intent and hopefully the snowballing of this choice has a positive affect. On the other hand there are those people who couldn’t care less about other people and selfishly choose to do what’s best for them, but there is nothing we can do about that either so there’s not much point in getting ourselves knotted up about it.

I like to think there are a lot more people out there who really do care about what choices they make and try to do the right thing than others who don’t.