Shiva Tattva

[ajay00]

The monotheistic Lingayats worship Shiva as the absolute reality, and wear an oval shaped shivalingam around their neck.

The Prajapita brahmakumaris worship the monotheistic God Shiva, which they state to be the same as Jehovah, Allah and Ahura Mazda.

The Shiva linga is a oval shaped stone worshipped as a symbol of God in Shaivite temples. In the yogic philosophy, the Linga is considered the first form to arise when creation occurs, and also the last form before the dissolution of creation. The Sikhs also consider incorporeal Shiva as the absolute reality.

The monotheistic Prajapita Brahmakumaris worship Shiva as a point of light,


The Prajapita Brahmakumaris is also the only spiritual organisation in the world led by women as leaders, teachers, administrators and so on.

http://www.brahmakumaris.com/

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by ajay00

The monotheistic Lingayats worship Shiva as the absolute reality, and wear an oval shaped shivalingam around their neck.

The Prajapita brahmakumaris worship the monotheistic God Shiva, which they state to be the same as Jehovah, Allah and Ahura Mazda.

The Shiva linga is a oval shaped stone worshipped as a symbol of God in Shaivite temples. In the yogic philosophy, the Linga is considered the first form to arise when creation occurs, and also the last form before the dissolution of creation. The Sikhs also consider incorporeal Shiva as the absolute reality.

The monotheistic Prajapita Brahmakumaris worship Shiva as a point of light,


The Prajapita Brahmakumaris is also the only spiritual organisation in the world led by women as leaders, teachers, administrators and so on.

http://www.brahmakumaris.com/

Thank you for the information.

With each form of worship of the Absolute Reality, comes a few concepts which makes it easier for the mind of the adherent to understand or grasp the idea of a formless, limitless Consciousness...either a "point of Light" or an "oval stone" or a "Divine Being"... However, the first two are rather impersonal, isn't it?

The Puranas and other Hindu texts, make the reference to an actual entity called "Shiva" and give this being attributes...A Saguna form...but Light and Lingam...Jyotir Lingam...Swayambu Lingam is also a Saguna form...and many just like the concept of Deity they can actually relate to somehow... something they can love because if they were going to do the whole "impersonal trip", they would be either an Advaita Vedantin or a Buddhist by now...Long ago, in fact.

As far as Ahura Mazda is concerned...Maybe some semantics are involved, but Ahura Mazda is an ancient Sumerian God and the Ancient Sumerians served and worshipped the Annunaki. There have been some scholars who have stated that Lord Shiva is the Annunaki God, Enki...Wes Penre for one, but the description of Enki found in the Sumerian Texts and the description of Shiva found in the sacred Hindu texts are like totally different... it's like they are describing two totally different beings and I could find nothing in common between a war mongering overlord and a yogi sitting on a mountain absorbed in bliss...but that's probably just me...

Oh yeah....As for the Sikhs worshiping an incorporeal form....it all looks pretty corporeal to ME, if not anybody else:
https://youtu.be/0KNzJ594GiQ

https://youtu.be/LdXanSO2YCU

The Punjabis make the best Bhole Baba and Bholenath bhangra like EVER.... accompanied by statues/murtis and pictures of this so-called incorporeal form...but I am being sarcastic now.

Also, I consider the fact that if Shiva did not have some kind of form, where did the alternative names of Neelkantha (blue-throated), Tryambakam (three-eyed), Gangadhara (Ganges in hair), Nageshwara (snake around neck), riding Nandi the Bull...All of the images we see...where do all THOSE come from then?

Also, if those things are all related to some kind of corporeal form of Shiva...why not call the incorporeal form something else...or vice versa, because it all just gets just a tad confusing for the average lay person who only wants to love and worship "God" and nothing more... doesn't it?

Also, Shiva must have had a reason why I got the whole corporeal vision trip...

[Shivani Devi]

My introduction to the Lingayats came almost 30 years ago, when I picked up a book of "Vachanas" or poetry, written by the Lingayat Saints like Allama Prabhu, Basavanna..Devi Mahayakka...it was called "Speaking of Shiva" by A.K. Ramanujan.

In it, each Saint had their own "pet name" for Shiva..."White as Jasmine"... "Lord of Caves" etc..each Saint went on to give Lord Shiva many attributes, before pouring their hearts out in Bhakti on the pages therein....so much for just paying homage to an oval-shaped stone around their neck....Well, that's what I thought at the time anyway.

Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva.
Buddha, Christ, Mohamed.
You, me, him, her.
This, that.

Tattva.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Eelco

Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva.
Buddha, Christ, Mohamed.
You, me, him, her.
This, that.

Tattva.

Of course, but who just wrote that and who is reading it? In other words, why make the distinction when none exists? We are all guilty of it...even saying that all Gods are the same is a duality, because there must be "all Gods" for them to be "the same".

And of course, it's also totally obvious that I have lost my heart and thus, cannot even think rationally or logically in regards, but that's just the way it is.

When I was Sixteen years old, I was in Bali, attending a prayer service in a temple...
It was time to go up and make offerings as prasadam...in gratitude for mercy and grace.
I had a banana in my bag and I wanted to go up and offer it to Shiva..I did not take the banana out of my bag, but I whispered my intentions to my mother...I was met with;

"Absolutely not! We are guests here, not participants...stay in your seat, shut up and I won't hear another word from you until it is over".

With that, I started sulking, bigtime. I was filled with a mixture of anger and disappointment...of course I didn't have the experience that everything was Shiva...I just wanted to give something back...and I wasn't allowed to...tears started rolling down my cheeks as I cursed my mother under my breath..."stupid witch" etc...then, I closed my eyes and started taking it out on Shiva..."What! Isn't MY banana good enough for you?" " Aren't I good enough for you?"..."stupid God you are..." With that, more tears started coming, but I sat there, trying to allow the hypnotic sound of the Gamelan soothe and pacify me somewhat.

Within moments, I noticed this light... brilliant white it was and it descended down..like Ajay was talking about...My whole mind and heart was filled with it...then, I heard a soft, male voice...almost a whisper..." I don't want your banana because I want your heart...I want you to love Me as I love you!" and I was like " I thought I already did!" and the voice said..."you only thought... that's the whole problem".

After that, I just surrendered...and went into bliss for the second time.

When the prayer service was over, I was called over by the priest...
"Wow, that Light I saw...oh and Shiva said "thanks for the banana, it was delicious...but your heart was much sweeter than banana..."
It was then I heard about the "Light of Shiva" and also understood that I had been chosen by Him.

And of course I already knew who Shiva was, after fainting before a picture of Him two years earlier, when it decided to totally animate in front of my eyes and I heard Him introduce Himself to me...and that was when the bliss happened the first time...

So, it does get difficult for me when I hear that the Light IS Shiva, because that only emanates from Him...and it does get difficult when I hear that "everything is Shiva" because I say, "yeah, and He is that TOO"...

So, in a way you can understand it...Just as the Gayatri Mantra has been personalised into a Goddess that you love, the essence of the universe has been personalised into a God that I love...and even though "everything is Shiva", I still love Shiva AS Shiva despite it, because my heart knows no better than this.

Aum Namah Shivaya.

[Shivani Devi]

With that, I shall be going offline for a while... because Shiva ALSO tends to have some traits of a typical human male as well... especially when it comes to demanding more of my affections than I am currently giving Him in private... because I'm telling all and sundry how much I love Him on HERE and not to "His face"...then when I ask Him to show me where His face is NOT, I get a roar of laughter with "nice try".

So, this is difficult to explain sometimes, to others who either in personalise a Divine Consciousness, or who seek to make it all-inclusive, without any room for anything to exist in between.

[captainamerica]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Of course, but who just wrote that and who is reading it? In other words, why make the distinction when none exists? We are all guilty of it...even saying that all Gods are the same is a duality, because there must be "all Gods" for them to be "the same".

And of course, it's also totally obvious that I have lost my heart and thus, cannot even think rationally or logically in regards, but that's just the way it is.

When I was Sixteen years old, I was in Bali, attending a prayer service in a temple...
It was time to go up and make offerings as prasadam...in gratitude for mercy and grace.
I had a banana in my bag and I wanted to go up and offer it to Siva..I did not take the banana out of my bag, but I whispered my intentions to my mother...I was met with;
"Absolutely not! We are guests here, not participants...stay in your seat, shut up and I won't hear another word from you until it is over".

With that, I started sulking, bigtime. I was filled with a mixture of anger and disappointment...of course I didn't have the experience that everything was Siva...I just wanted to give something back...and I wasn't allowed to...tears started rolling down my cheeks as I cursed my mother under my breath..."stupid witch" etc...then, I closed my eyes and started taking it out on Shiva..."What! Isn't MY banana good enough for you?" " Aren't I good enough for you?"..."stupid God you are..." With that, more tears started coming, but I sat there, trying to allow the hypnotic sound of the Gamelan soothe and pacify me somewhat.

Within moments, I noticed this light... brilliant White it was and it descended down..like Ajay was talking about...My whole mind and heart was filled with it...then, I heard a soft, male voice...almost a whisper..." I don't want your banana because I want your heart...I want you to love Me as I love you!" and I was like " I thought I already did!" and the voice said..."you only thought... that's the whole problem".

After that, I just surrendered...and went into bliss for the second time.

When the prayer service was over, I was called over by the priest...
"Wow, that Light I saw...oh and Siva said "thanks for the banana, it was delicious...but your heart was much sweeter than banana..."
It was then I heard about the "Light of Shiva" and also understood that I had been chosen by Him..

And of course I already knew who Shiva was, after fainting before a picture of Him two years earlier, when it decided to totally animate in front of my eyes and I heard Him introduce Himself to me...and that was when the bliss happened the first time...

So, it does get difficult for me when I hear that the Light IS Shiva, because that only emanates from Him...and it does get difficult when I hear that "everything is Shiva" because I say, "yeah, and He is that TOO"...

So, in a way you can understand it...Just as the Gayatri Mantra has been personalised into a Goddess that you love, the essence of the universe has been personalised into a God that I love...and even though "everything is Shiva", I still love Shiva AS Shiva despite it, because my heart knows no better than this.

Aum Namah Shivaya.

Wow.I feel the same for Krishna ji/Vishnu ji but they never reply.I tried many many times over the period of years.

Maybe I lack pure devotion like yours ...

[Shivani Devi]

Namaste.

I was just awoken from a deep sleep to pass on this message.

Human beings are either too busy in venerating the Gods, or seeing themselves as God, that they lack the ability to form a meaningful relationship with one.

Most of what is said about God, has merely been parroted from a book or a Guru somewhere.

They feel that if they repeat the Mantra "I am That" enough times, they'll eventually become That...and so, their whole realisation is on an intellectual level only...and because mankind is conditioned to believe "I am my mind", an intellectual realisation then becomes akin to the Realisation of Divinity.

Some point to Gurus like Ramana Maharishi and his total "non dual" philosophy...but to his dying day, he was totally in love and infatuated with Lord Shiva in the form of a Sacred Hill called Arunachala...so much for "non duality" eh? ...but the advaitins will omit this fact, because it doesn't suit or serve their agenda and is therefore not important.

Those who can see, will understand and those who cannot see have what is called "selective blindness" due to cognitive bias....and so, even if it was printed on a billboard and placed in front of them, their subconscious mind would block it from their view and they wouldn't be able to see it, even though others can.

This is why many of my posts are invisible to others.

Having said that, of course the supreme essence of the Universe...The Divine all-knowing Consciousness is something to be respected, revered, honoured, venerated etc, but most often, it just wants to be seen and treated like a friend... just an ordinary dude...

I mean the connections are humungous...The "fringe benefits" incalculable...but He/She/It just wants to be treated like a buddy...A very wise teacher...an ordinary guy with a wicked sense of humour, who will give you a kick in the rear when you need it....A hug when you need it...and amazing bliss, joy and Grace when you either need it....or don't.

When you can see...and feel Krishna/Vishnu in this way...and stop putting them on a pedestal, then they will talk to you within your heart, if you can just open yourself up to it...and opening yourself up means to let go...not "try" because "try" is diametrically opposite to letting go...and then you'll find yourself smack bang in the middle of a scene out of the Blues Brothers, that has a personal spin on it.

Another thing that may help you...and it made ALL the difference in my case...You live in India, right?

Get yourself to those places where the "old religion" is still practiced...Go to a Thaipusam ceremony...Go to a Kali ceremony.... watch people go into trance...into Arul Vaaku and mutilate themselves... watch as they dance in oblivious ecstasy...roll around on the floor....walk on fire...and breathe it all in, my friend... don't let your conscious conditioning say that they are insane...or possessed...or are doing socially unacceptable things... just allow yourself to go with it...The whole vibration of these sacred acts...sacred spaces... watch them carry Kavadi... small personal problems seem to fade into total insignificance when they are all seen as TAPASYA towards a higher goal and ideal.

Take care my friends...will see you all in a month or so.

Aum Namo Bhagavate Rudraaya.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Of course, but who just wrote that and who is reading it? In other words, why make the distinction when none exists? We are all guilty of it...even saying that all Gods are the same is a duality, because there must be "all Gods" for them to be "the same".

And of course, it's also totally obvious that I have lost my heart and thus, cannot even think rationally or logically in regards, but that's just the way it is.

When I was Sixteen years old, I was in Bali, attending a prayer service in a temple...
It was time to go up and make offerings as prasadam...in gratitude for mercy and grace.
I had a banana in my bag and I wanted to go up and offer it to Shiva..I did not take the banana out of my bag, but I whispered my intentions to my mother...I was met with;

"Absolutely not! We are guests here, not participants...stay in your seat, shut up and I won't hear another word from you until it is over".

With that, I started sulking, bigtime. I was filled with a mixture of anger and disappointment...of course I didn't have the experience that everything was Shiva...I just wanted to give something back...and I wasn't allowed to...tears started rolling down my cheeks as I cursed my mother under my breath..."stupid witch" etc...then, I closed my eyes and started taking it out on Shiva..."What! Isn't MY banana good enough for you?" " Aren't I good enough for you?"..."stupid God you are..." With that, more tears started coming, but I sat there, trying to allow the hypnotic sound of the Gamelan soothe and pacify me somewhat.

Within moments, I noticed this light... brilliant white it was and it descended down..like Ajay was talking about...My whole mind and heart was filled with it...then, I heard a soft, male voice...almost a whisper..." I don't want your banana because I want your heart...I want you to love Me as I love you!" and I was like " I thought I already did!" and the voice said..."you only thought... that's the whole problem".

After that, I just surrendered...and went into bliss for the second time.

When the prayer service was over, I was called over by the priest...
"Wow, that Light I saw...oh and Shiva said "thanks for the banana, it was delicious...but your heart was much sweeter than banana..."
It was then I heard about the "Light of Shiva" and also understood that I had been chosen by Him.

And of course I already knew who Shiva was, after fainting before a picture of Him two years earlier, when it decided to totally animate in front of my eyes and I heard Him introduce Himself to me...and that was when the bliss happened the first time...

So, it does get difficult for me when I hear that the Light IS Shiva, because that only emanates from Him...and it does get difficult when I hear that "everything is Shiva" because I say, "yeah, and He is that TOO"...

So, in a way you can understand it...Just as the Gayatri Mantra has been personalised into a Goddess that you love, the essence of the universe has been personalised into a God that I love...and even though "everything is Shiva", I still love Shiva AS Shiva despite it, because my heart knows no better than this.

Aum Namah Shivaya.

The reason for writing or reading it the way I did was a mere reminder.
That in the end it doesn't matter who you bow to.

Even though a specific embodiment of Tattva.
Gayatri devi or Shiva feels special.
When seeing the others we should remember he or she is That too.

ॐ पूर्णमदः पूर्णमिदं पूर्णात्पुर्णमुदच्यते
पूर्णस्य पूर्णमादाय पूर्णमेवावशिष्यते ॥
ॐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः ॥

Om Purnamadah Purnamidam Purnat Purnamudachyate Purnasya Purnamadaya Purnamevavashisyate
Om, shanti, shanti, shanti.


With Love
Eelco

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Thank you for the information.

With each form of worship of the Absolute Reality, comes a few concepts which makes it easier for the mind of the adherent to understand or grasp the idea of a formless, limitless Consciousness...either a "point of Light" or an "oval stone" or a "Divine Being"... However, the first two are rather impersonal, isn't it?

The Shiva of the Prajapita Brahmakumaris is not impersonal, but personal.

A distinction is made between Shiva and the impersonal Nirguna Brahman by Shiva Himself. Shiva is considered as Saguna Brahman, or the personal God with attributes.