Non Dual pointers! Pointing at what can't be pointed at.

[JayTruther]

After watching thousands of hours of non dual pointers from the youtube circuit "teachers" the following of the pointing always induces a state of open quiet stillness without thought.

I would recite a pointer or watch a video like an addiction to again open this no thought stillness again and again everyday for years on end.

One day, not that long ago an actual glimpse took place of Non Duality, which was COMPLETELY different to this "state" the pointers would induce.

My question is what are the pointers pointing at? If when following them a "state" of calm quiet stillness arises yet this is nothing at all like the Non Dual glimpse that was had here?

These pointers really dont, for me anyway point towards the natural state, its actually more confusing and frustrating after an actual glimpse.

As now it's seen the mind just cannot do anything at all!

Originally Posted by JayTruther

These pointers really don't for me anyway point towards the natural state, its actually more confusing and frustrating after an actual glimpse.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...06D6&FORM=VIRE

The fingers are pointing at the moon, the moon being-Duality but because it's an experience it's individual.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by JayTruther

As now it's seen the mind just cannot do anything at all!

Being calm and still is just one part of non-duality . There is lot more to it.

Non-duality is not a magic wand . There is it lot of hard work , compassion , intelligence and patience required . No miracles happen with non-duality . Non-duality does not promise any out of the world miraculous mystical experiences .You may not try to learn about Non-duality if u expect magics to happen with it else u may suffer like not being able to do anything .

Originally Posted by JayTruther

After watching thousands of hours of non dual pointers from the youtube circuit "teachers" the following of the pointing always induces a state of open quiet stillness without thought.

What all the pointers are pointing to is that open quiet stillness is ever-present regardless of mind/no-mind, thought/no-thought.

The knowledge-based path (Jnana Yoga) is said to be the most difficult and my opinion is the YT circuit teachers might be a good introduction but they are far too shallow for real progress for most people. It's like trying to learn to swim by standing in ankle-deep water.

I'd recommend finding a serious non-dual tradition and following its teachings and practices to the best of your ability.

Originally Posted by JayTruther

point towards the natural state,

What is the 'natural state'? Something else that's coming through with non-Duality is phrases like these, and 'true self'.

If non-Duality is the answer, what's the question?

[JayTruther]

I think you guys have gotten me wrong.

Youtube teachers, shaktipat, kundalini etc etc.

It's all been researched and become felt experience, anyone can spout higher truths and tell "me" to find a tradition to follow but this has already been seen.

Until a glimpse has been seen then anything being said here is all concepts. Also to try telling me basics is somewhat patronising.

A glimpse happened here, did all you guys have any real glimpse if not your just giving out more concepts.

Sorry to be brash but it's just true.

Whatever pointers or traditions anyone is following once you glimpse this you realise that "this" is nothing whatsoever like the mind expected, thought, imagined.

A mind can only talk in concepts, this is concept less including using certain traditions as they also cannot guarantee anything at all.

[JayTruther]

I would like to ask each of you a simple question.

Have you had a glimpse? If yes I'm eager to hear what insights you may have.

If not then again everything being said is regurgitated concepts, am I wrong?

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by JayTruther

Until a glimpse has been seen then anything being said here is all concepts. Also to try telling me basics is somewhat patronising.

All that u believe / follow / practice is just concept.
-Marriage with all vows easily broken by divorces is a concept .
-Paper bills with falling purchasing power is also a concept
- nation , government, economy , psychology , its rules and theorems everything is concept at one level . Only thing is that you and many others believe in these concepts as real / permanent . I do believe in all these concepts with due regards to its validity & invalidity .

Originally Posted by JayTruther

did all you guys have any real glimpse if not your just giving out more concepts.

Yes I definitely have the glimpses (Not the complete full multi dimension 360X360 view ) of it in the beautiful sunrises , fast running rivers , majestic mountains , vast oceans constantly creating tide , romantic rain showers , snowfall . Even in my social interactions I have great relationships with all i interact giving me blissful feelings . In meditation though its very difficult , I do feel the glimpses sometimes. I dont think there is anything magical or miraculous or impossible in any of it . You too can have these glimpses very easily .

Originally Posted by JayTruther

"this" is nothing whatsoever like the mind expected, thought, imagined.

You may examine whether your expectations are realistic or you fancied some magical miraculous thing to happen with non-duality .

Originally Posted by JayTruther

A mind can only talk in concepts, this is concept less including using certain traditions as they also cannot guarantee anything at all.

Guarantees in life is like myth . Nobody provides . Promise of value on currency bills is broken during inflationary times. Promise of security / freedom / equality before law / justice everything is not guaranteed always. So expecting some material limited guarantee from concepts about infinite with infinite possibilities is asking too much .

[JayTruther]

Hi Hitesh

Again I feel your not reading all I have said but just spouting your own concepts.

Nobody here is expecting anything magical, I've had a non dual glimpse.

Seeing has happened here all but briefly.

I could be a arsehole who has no compassion or bother for others whatsoever. This all has nothing to do with Non Duality as Non Duality is EVERYTHING JUST HAPPENING AS IT IS, BY ITSELF.

The glimpses you are referring to are likely you opening up and being a better person, the mind is refining and seeing this world in a more compassionate and loving way which is very beautiful.

Yet this isn't what I mean at all.

I will say it again in this way.......

Non Duality is the absence of the "I" which means everything is just happening all by itself as "you" are not there and don't exist.

The body is moving by itself without a controller!

If/when a real glimpse happens there, then I promise that most of the things you are saying will be seen as irrelevant in everyway.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by JayTruther

Non Duality is the absence of the "I" which means everything is just happening all by itself as "you" are not there and don't exist.

The body is moving by itself without a controller!

If/when a real glimpse happens there, then I promise that most of the things you are saying will be seen as irrelevant in everyway.

In non-duality our narrow material limited I transcends its limits and merges with superior cosmic Self . Body moving without controller means ie old narrow limited I with narrow border no longer exists . But this old 'controller' is replaced by a Higher Self which is omni-scient & omni-presence . With the influence of higher self, seeker resonates the experience of every'other' just like other and accordingly there is no 'other' or 'you ' . But the controller - a new revamped controller - higher Self is definitely present. Without that body simply can not move.