It isn't ONE Self it is Self that is all there is ..

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey Panda ..

Just picking something up from another thread about seeing God's face ..or seeing God face to face (or not) be it the case.

Hey there Teds, how's stuff? So what's this about seeing Source's face? Face-to-face? Are you asking me? Well, this is what I do...I pose a question to the guides (have worked with for many years). And I come with no preconceived notions about what they will say or do or show me. So, as a result, I am often profoundly surprised with regard to how the conversation turns. That is the best part. I literally cannot predict what will happen next, and that's exactly the way I like it. Profound authenticity and everyone simply is who they are. I am who I am (disclaimer: I didn't coin that phrase ), as are we all.

Sounds like a bit of a koan in a way, depending on context and perspective because it can be said that seeing God face to face would be like seeing one's own reflection, but beyond self identification there would be no-one to see lol .

So... There were some very important preliminaries discussed 1st by the guides but then I and another member of my soul fam put forth questions to the guides.

We asked if there is an aspect of Source w/which we can interact with directly (as individuated souls / individuated consciousness in the timeless sense of consciousness). Illumination carries all the meaning, but we did pose clear questions. Because clearly, we can neither apprehend nor interact with Oneness or undifferentiated Source. But TBH, who cares? Hahaha...I would rather engage with a differentiated aspect when I have foundational questions.

And yes...we were told we can interact directly with aspects of Source that were temporally incarnate (i.e., came into being within the Universe, to experience an incarnation such as those we have, e.g., a human lifetime or etc.). And we were given a concrete example, as it turns out. It was a very simple, low-key, warm, and loving reveal. Many have seen this incarnated aspect...I realised this aspect is everywhere if you have eyes to see and many guises have been attributed throughout our human drama thus far. And I will add that no doubt individual preference and path or journey play a part. Meaning, the fullness of our understanding and our desire to be up close and personal are critical to experiencing this aspect of Source. Our journey is our own and all paths lead to Source ultimately, right?

Here's the kicker. I have studied traditional texts extensively...there is both good and bad but TBH humanity has been a poor vessel or filter for truth for much of our journey, LOL. So I still have to ask about the whole worship thing...as many bits of our human relationship with Source have just never resonated. Either too slavish or too abstract and alienated. We are either king of the mountain (alienated/God is dead) or blindly obedient, either way murderous if challenged. Are we so insecure or infantile that we struggle to seek partnership and other forms of engagement with Source? What do we do about that? How do/can we move forward in authentic love? Well, these will be some of my questions anyway....

Are these the conscious form of interbeing anyone desires with One or Brahman? Or at the very least, are those the only ones humanity want in our collective tool kit?

Many might describe our relationship with One as (ideally) communion with awareness and presence. Yes. But even still, it doesn't resonate IMO unless we are also actively engaged in authentic love in being and doing toward our fellow human beings, equally to our selves. As well as pursuing sustainable interbeing w/Gaia et al. And IMO it should not be difficult to begin to draw the conscious connections if we regularly self-reflect, i.e., walk our paths mindfully or w/awareness (whichever term you prefer). It's tough to engage meaningfully w/folks who just say, well, I believe this just because, or I don't have to reflect on why I believe XYZ. That's basically the same as my way or highway, LOL. No ownership.

I'm thinking, er no, you really do need to own why you stand for this or that, so that I & the rest of humanity can recognise you and where you are, according to you. And so we can even begin to discuss commonalities and differences. So I want to ask Source for thoughts on our human spiritual journey and on relationship, "worship", and tradition. As there are truths in the traditions. But I want to be respectful ;) Also...I want to ask Source(diff) about why things are as they are, but more just to deepen understanding, right?...as I do trust that ultimately all is good and all is for the good. But it would be nice if humanity could also come along in future.

So if I ask Source directly, I'm hoping for an answer beyond the obvious (it is what it is)...I want to know Source(diff)'s "thoughts" (per the individuated incarnation), to whatever degree I can apprehend. And based on that uniqueness and totality, against my own. That is essentially the answer, of course. But I still want to hear the specifics said to this group in this time and place. IOW, I have only done this in the presence of others, so we can all bear witness, so to speak. It's called accountability and transparency, so I am not misrepresenting (best of my knowledge) my understanding, nor others, theirs...all the way up the chain This is not THE truth...because that is undifferentiated and has no meaning for those of us incarnated here in the multiverse. But whenever we seek it, it will be OUR truth in this moment and place (i.e., at this place on our journeys), if we are open to it and if we can receive it.

It's actually a good line of thought to follow in a way, because there is obviously much of what as an individual we do not know in the immediate .

YES. I am forever coming to realise that is the understatement of the year, hahaha!

That doesn't mean that were are not a part of God, and as God is all there is, again, it's a little koan like .

That's right. Consciously individuated / differentiated aspects of Source are like purer fractals, more reflective of the undifferentiated One...but all are aspects. I can't capture the different qualities in words...but the difference is not just that the incarnation is more aware of self. It's that the Self is more truly One and there is a foundational awareness of that, of everything in and outside of existence and of Oneness. There is a simple being and presence...and of joy, laughter, and love.

Perhaps we can work with, simply for whatever reason that we are not aware of everything per se .. even though there is only what we are .

Yes...it's to do with our individual souls and journeys and what may work best at this time/place versus another, I would say.

Another thing, touching about what you spoke about regarding coming into experience with soul groups is that there I dare say is a difference in becoming aware of oneself as an individual and becoming aware of an incarnation where one experiences life with a soul group -

x daz x

Yes, I would agree...though funny I was always just me, really, LOL. But yes, agreed. That awareness of the interbeing...that was deeply impactful and led to many things in need of attention and resolution. That was actually what got me asking Gabe to begin with. (Blessings & thanks to all).

Peace & blessings Teds
7L

Originally Posted by MikeS80

I do not buy it. I is I, no matter how you try to spin your I. You are just trying to be poetic. It is your JASG I that make up/spin definitions/meanings for words so that said words falsely benefit you.

If Brahman is without a second then by that very fact I am Brahman. It could be no other way. There is only Brahman. It's a "knowing" and not a knowing.

If you don't believe it true for me then you don't believe it true for you. I "know" it true for both of (the apparent) us. That's the difference in this discussion. You have doubt whereas I don't and I've been attempting to explain where i'm coming from however words fall short. Far, far short. Best I can do is relate what Advaita has to say.

Take the title of this thread and replace Self with Brahman.

"It isn't ONE Brahman it is Brahman that is all there is .."

Do you agree with the thread's title? I just stated the same thing but in no uncertain terms as it relates to the right here and right now and not only to me but all of us.

I don't expect you to believe me nor do I want you to believe me. I'd rather you "know" it for yourself and I'm just tossing out seeds for exploration. I'm attempting to pique curiosity. Don't look at the finger but to where it's pointing and that's at the deepest core of your being.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

According to him, he is not a man. Haven't you been listening? Lol

You do understand. LOL!

I'm saying we're Spirit (read Brahman) witnessing human experience and you seem to be saying we're human having a spiritual experience. See the difference?

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

You do understand. LOL!

I'm saying we're Spirit (read Brahman) witnessing human experience and you seem to be saying we're human having a spiritual experience. See the difference?

Brahman is everything so there is nothing that is not Brahman. Doesn't that include human? Maybe the question is what makes human human, and who/what decides?

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

You do understand. LOL!

I'm saying we're Spirit (read Brahman) witnessing human experience and you seem to be saying we're human having a spiritual experience. See the difference?

Yes, I do understand, but imagining in your mind/head that you are nothing but consciousness while you separate, ignore and dismiss everything and anything that is physical/duality (which includes your mind and mental processes), which is also brahman does not help anyone and is not oneness/wholeness.

Edit: I am not saying that we're human having a spiritual experience at all, I am saying we are both Brahman witnessing human experience and humans having a spiritual brahman experience. Do you see the difference? The latter is experience from both sides of the coin and the former is experiencing from one side of the coin. Saying we are brahman witnessing human experience is also experiencing from one side of the coin, and is not oneness/wholeness.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Brahman is everything so there is nothing that is not Brahman. Doesn't that include human? Maybe the question is what makes human human, and who/what decides?

Exactly, Everything and anything that one thinks is good, bad, beautiful, ugly etc etc is brahman.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Brahman is everything so there is nothing that is not Brahman. Doesn't that include human? Maybe the question is what makes human human, and who/what decides?

Well now, that's getting into what is Maya/objective reality and neither Advaita nor physics has the answer and I don't expect either to ever have the answer.

From the Advaita perspective knowing that answer knows Brahman in the intellectual sense and that objectifies Brahman, transmogrifying It from the Ineffable to the effable.

https://youtu.be/O6rHeD5x2tI

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Brahman is everything so there is nothing that is not Brahman. Doesn't that include human? Maybe the question is what makes human human, and who/what decides?

According to him, everything physical is duality, everything and anything that is duality is an illusion or is unreal, in turn, he thinks all this duality which are illusion/unreal are not brahman, he mistakingly equates all this with oneness/wholeness, which make absolutely no sense at all....And it makes no sense in the context of oneness/wholeness because to him it is not about oneness/wholeness, it is about duality and non-duality or duality vs non-duality, which is not oneness/wholeness at all. Oneness/wholeness is duality and non-duality are one and the same. I told him this many times to no avail!

The duality that matters in the spiritual sense/context is separating brahman from itself, which his duality vs non-duality mindset does.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Well now, that's getting into what is Maya/objective reality and neither Advaita nor physics has the answer and I don't expect either to ever have the answer.

From the Advaita perspective knowing that answer knows Brahman in the intellectual sense and that objectifies Brahman, transmogrifying It from the Ineffable to the effable.

https://youtu.be/O6rHeD5x2tI

Calling brahman brahman to begin with, objectifies Brahman. It is more helpful to focus your mental/imaginative energy by picturing that duality and non-duality are one and the same in your mind. Saying objectifying Brahman is maya, when you do it youreslf to begin with, when you call brahman brahman is false (mithya) and is maya (ignorance).

Originally Posted by MikeS80

According to him, everything physical is duality, everything and anything that is duality is an illusion or is unreal, in turn, he thinks all this duality which are illusion/unreal are not brahman, he mistakingly equates all this with oneness/wholeness, which make absolutely no sense at all....And it makes no sense in the context of oneness/wholeness because to him it is not about oneness/wholeness, it is about duality and non-duality or duality vs non-duality, which is not oneness/wholeness at all. Oneness/wholeness is duality and non-duality are one and the same. I told him this many times to no avail!

The duality that matters in the spiritual sense/context is separating brahman from itself, which his duality vs non-duality mindset does.

One has to first understand the duality of things in order to understand the non-duality of No Thing. It's just a teaching method to guide one's exploration of experience. It's the methodology of Advaita.

It's an easy thing to say there is only Brahman. That's intellectual and nothing more than a neat philosophy. It's another thing entirely to understand it and experientially so and that's the method of Self-inquiry via Neti Neti. The first Neti is it's not this thing or that thing, whether the thing be body, mind, thoughts, emotions, sensations, feelings, etc... The second Neti is it's not nothing. It's No Thing and your mission, should you decide to accept it, is understand That No Thing. It's right here and right now and at your deepest core of being as it is mine and everyone else's.

*Deleted"