Does one environment affect/forms ones beliefs?

[Shivani Devi]

I am just going to take a little detour here...it is still on the topic of belief, but now it is all about our predilections towards them.

I first became interested in Hinduism when I watched how beliefs could allow people to undergo incredible self mutilation without pain or blood...how it allowed people to smear their bodies with coconut oil then roll around in blazing hot coals..yeah, it is just all "show and tell" for the faithful...the power of mind over matter and somehow, I was just "impressionable" that way because it was truly impressive.

Thus started my love affair with the evolutionary energies in man and the deities responsible for them (Shakti and Shiva) and of course, the outcome of the union between Matter and Consciousness gives rise to mankind (Vel Murugan)...for beliefs also tend to have a lot of symbolism and Jungian Archetypes going for them however, Freud would argue that my relationship with Shiva is due to some misguided Oedipus Complex while Jung would say it is an Electra Complex... gentlemen...please! Why must everything be based around a child's desire to fck their parents? Disgusting!

So, I look at my bookshelf and the row of books which contain Bruce and Gregg...

"How To Succeed At Being Yourself" - Joyce Meyer
"The Brain That Changes Itself" - Norman Doidge MD
"The Search For the Pearl - A Personal Exploration of Science and Mysticism" - Gillian Ross
"The Charge - Activating the 10 Human Drives that Make You Feel Alive" - Brendon Burchard
"The Biology of Belief" - Bruce Lipton
"The Divine Matrix" - Gregg Braden
"Playing the Matrix" - Mike Dooley
(For all who are interested in the LOA stuff, I highly recommend Mike Dooley's 4 set CD series "Leveraging the Universe and Engaging the Magic")
"Emergence - Seven Steps for Radical Life Change" - Derek Rydall
"Care of the Soul" - Thomas Moore
"The Re-Enchantment of Everyday Life" - Thomas Moore
"Anatomy of the Spirit" - Caroline Myss PH.D
"Sacred Contracts - Awakening Your Divine Potential" - Caroline Myss PH.D
"The Unmistakable Touch of Grace" - Cheryl Richardson
"Learned Optimism - How to Change Your Mind And Your Life" - Martin E.P Seligman Ph.D
"Grist for the Mill" - Ram Dass
"Be Love Now" - Ram Dass

....that is just one shelf of my six shelved bookcase...and the titles of all my books tell a tale all of their own. =)

On another shelf lives the Vedas and all my Hindu scriptures and texts as well as the Dhammapada and the Tibetan Book of Death and Great Liberation..

On another shelf lives all my forbidden history and sacred geometry books...that is where we get into Graham Hancock, David Wilcock, Zechariah Sitchin, David Hatcher-Childress, Drunvalo Melchizedek, Eric Von Daniken, H.P. Blavatsky and stuff about crop circles, ancient architecture, Egyptology, aliens, Atlantis and forbidden technology...

So, I have a wide range of "beliefs" and I will pretty much "believe anything" because it is the way I open my mind up to learn new things ABOUT my beliefs.

Others are very guarded with their "beliefs" lest they appear to anybody ELSE as being "gullible" or "naive" or "dim-witted" or "easily manipulated/led astray" and that is a crying shame.

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

The "Biology of Belief" has pride of place on my bookshelf..it sits right next to "The Divine Matrix" by Gregg Braden.

There are many things that shape belief - genetics, environment, past experience, and just this deep, intrinsic "this feels totally right" vibe.

Suffice to say that it isn't just confined to one (this) lifetime.

There comes a point where belief turns into "knowing" but to those who don't know...who haven't had that experience, it is still a belief because it cannot be "proven" to be anything other than that...so most beliefs are just beliefs about beliefs...funny, isn't it?

Given certain stimuli, each brain reacts differently according to the level of self actualization either at the time or upon hindsight.

They may have been raised by parents telling them they will never amount to anything...some will get low self-esteem and carry the trauma of unworthiness all their lives...others will look at their parents stuck in dead end jobs they hate, struggling to pay the bills, in trouble with the law, getting drunk every weekend and go "your parents must have said exactly the same thing to YOU because if I am not going to amount to anything, the BEST thing I could do would be to follow the example you set for me"...I was an incorrigible teen and got beaten to a pulp for speaking my mind. Did that ever stop me? Hell no!

I am still painfully shy in social settings though...you wouldn't think it by the way I carry on here...call it "overcompensating". =)

Hi Shiva Devi,

Thank you for your sharing,

Yes, for me there is a difference between knowing and believing. Knowing, for me seems to form through experience.

There were things going on with my parents while I was growing up that I was kind of aware of and knew in some ways, but was either too young to fully understand or just left out of the loop. Being the youngest out of six kids.

As I grew older and more mature (somewhat, lol) came to find out more about my family dynamics and what my parents were going through. This brought further understandings and moments of;Oh, so that was why...was going on.

Don't get me wrong feel both did thier what each was able to do, but some relational issues I had with my father were a bit distant at times.

So, knowing the dynamics has helped me understand some set patterns with in myself and come to terms with them. Also mellowed out, a bit, with the passing years.

Socially I need to warm up to someone before feeling a closeness of some kind with them. Some have called it shy, but I think it is more of being a private person.

A place like this helps to air out the thoughts at times and for the most part feel pretty safe expressing myself.

Yes, find each person seems to process information given a bit different according to what one is capable of doing, IMO.

By the way: the information and links you provide are great and appreciated. Still going through the responses here. Hugs

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

I know, right? Both of them.
Ha, also Catherine Pert's, "Molecules of Emotion: Why You Feel the Way You Feel" and
"Your Body Is Your Subconscious Mind"--researcher of brain chemistry extraordinaire, RIP.
Youtubes available explaining it all - Dr. Joe Dispenza, Joseph Murphy...
actually googling -"Effects of the subconscious mind youtubes', gets you a great list.

Was wondering, Moonglow, if you had seen "What the #?!Bleep?", movie.

Since I have re-programmed my subconscious mind from old beliefs my
life is quite wonderful!

My 'thing' is belief is the most powerful thing in the Universe.
The thing is we may believe something ,
"I am the most qualified person for this job, I would fit so well in that company!!"
YET, in our silent subconscious mind's programming from childhood,
it believes, "You'll never get such a great job"...and thus, you don't.
Also, "Money doesn't grow on trees - You're always screwing up. You can't do anything right. You're just like your father,
fill in the word. Life is hard..." Oh brother.

I hang out a lot in the Affirmations and Manifesting, Law of Attraction section here.
The power we have to re-program our core beliefs is amazing.
Life changing.

Hi Miss Hepburn,

Yes I have seen What the Bleep, movie.

It has been and is an on going process for me to be aware and reform patterns in me.

Some just comes with maturity, suppose. Life experiences and what they bring.
While other inspirations come through other means. Dreams, people giving support, willingness on my part not to be so stubborn, lol, and forgiveness.

Oh yeah there is also the big one; Gratitude.

It is not so much about doing away with beliefs for as it is placing things in thier proper place. Does it serve now, sort of thing.

Yes, having a center/Spirit/guidance to turn to and trust helps. As can be referred to as God, but not what is dictated to be, but what is known with in and felt through out.

It is amazing and takes some doing, but worth it. Suppose that's life.

Thank you for your sharing.

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I've been intensely interested in consciousness for the last decade and I've also done my share of meditation. It's interesting when one gets to the point where emergent thought patterns that normally work below the level of attentive consciousness can be observed, and how they turn into thought trains that can potentially lead to emotional reactions.

Many of those thoughts are shaped by past experiences' impact on the neural circuitry and aren't a product of free will. They are deterministic. The brain has roughly 86 billion neurons with each one having about seven thousand synaptic connections to other neurons. That's a lot of wiring and neuroplasticity is constantly tinkering with it. What an utterly fantastic machine!

Neurons that fire together wire together and we are what we think, whether we are aware of that thinking or not. That's why it's not only actions that can't. It's not even words. It's thoughts because they precede words and words precede action.

We can either let neuroplasticity do all it's work behind the scenes and without intent or we can intentionally nudge it in a more beneficial direction.

Me, been kind of figure it out as I go along type of guy. Had friends help me along the way. Also have Message Therapy training which brought into my consciousness how every part of our makeup are connected. Not only memories and thoughts held in the mind, emotions held with in the body. How one can affect the other and create dis-ease. Throw on top of that unresolved issues and walla can create disorder, IMO. Mind you this just my lay mans view.

Through message therapy found that areas in the body that may hold emotions/energy are loosened that these held emotions/energy can be released.
This can bring relief not only to the body, but to the mind. Have experienced this myself and witnessed this when I was practicing Massage work.

It is quite amazing.

Meditation is becoming more recognized for it benefits to one being as well. Some schools here in the states have students do a short meditation before class. Brings more calm to the mind and body and focus.

I go back and forth with practicing meditation myself. Still use breathing techniques to help me calm down and bring focus to myself.

Went a little off topic on beliefs here. Just find one can have affect upon the other. Mind/body/spirit.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hi Shiva Devi,

Thank you for your sharing,

Yes, for me there is a difference between knowing and believing. Knowing, for me seems to form through experience.

There were things going on with my parents while I was growing up that I was kind of aware of and knew in some ways, but was either too young to fully understand or just left out of the loop. Being the youngest out of six kids.

As I grew older and more mature (somewhat, lol) came to find out more about my family dynamics and what my parents were going through. This brought further understandings and moments of;Oh, so that was why...was going on.

Don't get me wrong feel both did thier what each was able to do, but some relational issues I had with my father were a bit distant at times.

So, knowing the dynamics has helped me understand some set patterns with in myself and come to terms with them. Also mellowed out, a bit, with the passing years.

Socially I need to warm up to someone before feeling a closeness of some kind with them. Some have called it shy, but I think it is more of being a private person.

A place like this helps to air out the thoughts at times and for the most part feel pretty safe expressing myself.

Yes, find each person seems to process information given a bit different according to what one is capable of doing, IMO.

By the way: the information and links you provide are great and appreciated. Still going through the responses here. Hugs

Thank you so much for the appreciation.

I agree that spirituality + anonymity allows people to open up about issues more than they would generally do in any "offline" situation..so true.

My family was TOTALLY dysfunctional and I was the eldest of two children and throughout my childhood I understood that my parents didn't want "children", they wanted to be the progenitors of a slave race but stopped at two and so one needed to grow up very quickly.

So yes, birth order can also influence beliefs as you have so rightly posited.

As for the links...I have a veritable goldmine of YouTube offerings...about a thousand (or more) lectures and documentaries about everything spiritual and mystical under the sun...I put Gaia TV to shame. LOL

These are all downloaded to my PC through a codex conversion program called YTD (.flv to .mpeg4) before being stored according to subject material on my 4TB external hard drive...where I get to watch tesseracting fractals on my giant plasma TV screen interspersed with lectures by Sadhguru, biohacking, exotic temple dances and Nisargadatta's ultimatum pointers...

Anyway, enough of that. LOL

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Thank you so much for the appreciation.

I agree that spirituality + anonymity allows people to open up about issues more than they would generally do in any "offline" situation..so true.

My family was TOTALLY dysfunctional and I was the eldest of two children and throughout my childhood I understood that my parents didn't want "children", they wanted to be the progenitors of a slave race but stopped at two and so one needed to grow up very quickly.

So yes, birth order can also influence beliefs as you have so rightly posited.

As for the links...I have a veritable goldmine of YouTube offerings...about a thousand (or more) lectures and documentaries about everything spiritual and mystical under the sun...I put Gaia TV to shame. LOL

These are all downloaded to my PC through a codex conversion program called YTD (.flv to .mpeg4) before being stored according to subject material on my 4TB external hard drive...where I get to watch tesseracting fractals on my giant plasma TV screen interspersed with lectures by Sadhguru, biohacking, exotic temple dances and Nisargadatta's ultimatum pointers...

Anyway, enough of that. LOL

The list of books you have and the amount of information you collect is impressive.

I have had and continue to have a wide range of interests. Ranging from tarot, Hermetics, Tao, Zen, massage Therapy, Energy work, just to touch upon a few.

I have watched a couple of Sadguru videos, he's quite interesting. Although at times he speaks of Indias issues, feel some issues are universal. How we treat the environment, for example. Widens my own world view when hearing people from other places speak.

I have books on Alternative "cures", herbs, and text on gardening.
Some favorites:

Hitch hikers Guide to the Galaxy-Douglas Adams, lol
Light Emerging-Babara Ann Brennan
The End of Your World-Adyashanti
How Yoga Works-Gesne Michael Roach/Chrstie McNally (goes through the teachings of yoga through telling a story)
The Kybalian

These have inspired me and brought some cool insights. Which influenced my beliefs as well.

Have read Caroline Myss books as well. She is great.

There are others somewhere in my place, most likely in a box. Pull out some when felt to further reflect.

My beliefs continue to change and expand, for I am interested in life and others.

My Cathlic upbringing has had its influences, but able to expand and grow while holding some basics.

It is interesting to look at what my beliefs are built upon to begin with.

Thank you for sharing.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I am just going to take a little detour here...it is still on the topic of belief, but now it is all about our predilections towards them.

I first became interested in Hinduism when I watched how beliefs could allow people to undergo incredible self mutilation without pain or blood...how it allowed people to smear their bodies with coconut oil then roll around in blazing hot coals..yeah, it is just all "show and tell" for the faithful...the power of mind over matter and somehow, I was just "impressionable" that way because it was truly impressive.

I highly suspect you can ascertain the same results from virtually all, if not all belief systems.

As for me, I have a picture of a cobra around my neck while I kissed the cobra's hood.

In my area, walking on coals is a common practice.

Playing with rattlesnakes is another practice some do in my area.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

I highly suspect you can ascertain the same results from virtually all, if not all belief systems.

As for me, I have a picture of a cobra around my neck while I kissed the cobra's hood.

In my area, walking on coals is a common practice.

Playing with rattlesnakes is another practice some do in my area.

I have had a cobra around my neck too...

If you have never been to the Thaipusam festival at Batu Caves in Malaysia...if you have never watched traditional Balinese fire walking...if you haven't had those experiences which formed the beliefs that I have, you don't get to cheapen or nullify them by comparing my experiences to other experiences YOU may have had which may be "similar" but in no way exactly comparable on any level...do you understand? I hope you do because I grow tired of playing this whole "naysaying" game with you anymore....over it! You are a skeptic...I GET that! I am not a skeptic...please deal with it.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I have had a cobra around my neck too...

If you have never been to the Thaipusam festival at Batu Caves in Malaysia...if you have never watched traditional Balinese fire walking...if you haven't had those experiences which formed the beliefs that I have, you don't get to cheapen or nullify them by comparing my experiences to other experiences YOU may have had which may be "similar" but in no way exactly comparable on any level...do you understand? I hope you do because I grow tired of playing this whole "naysaying" game with you anymore....over it! You are a skeptic...I GET that! I am not a skeptic...please deal with it.

Why do you call me a skeptic?

I have had those experiences but you claim differently?

Why is my fire walking so much different then Balinese fire walking?

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Why do you call me a skeptic?

I have had those experiences but you claim differently?

Why is my fire walking so much different then Balinese fire walking?

Do you want to know why?

Because over the past few weeks, I have noticed your attitude change towards me. You have started taking me to task over stuff I post when before, you did not bother...why?

You say that you have a secret to divulge to me and when the time is right, you will reveal it...well, I am not holding my breath for that...I don't care about that! I don't want to know! etc...etc...

So, you have been to the Thaipusam festival at Batu Caves in Malaysia? Did you also tune in to the whole vibration of devotion? Of tapasya and penance? Did you understand the whole significance after reading the Skanda Purana?..did you go into ecstatic trance-bliss and have visions of Lord Shiva?

I am sorry if I was hasty in overgeneralizing an experience without providing every minute detail of it to stop you from saying "yeah, I have been there and done that TOO...no biggie".

Which only goes to prove that among two different individuals, the same experience does NOT produce the same belief set...ergo, environment has nothing to do with belief....there must be something else at play.

At least I have the honesty to say that I have never been to the place where you say that people walk on hot coals or play with rattlesnakes...so until I DO, I cannot even make any comparison because none can be made! That is what I am getting at.

No doubt the mystical practices of other Religions is what draws the adherents of such into them and this isn't just confined to Hinduism... therefore, I could be any other religion other than Hinduism which has similar practices, so why limit myself to just one belief system?

That is easy...because I would just get too bloody confused if I tried to incorporate any conflicting ideologies into it and would end up becoming an irreligious Atheist if I tried...and I don't want to go down that route.

So, there we have it...now excuse me while I go and watch the Bharatnatyam dance to cool off.