Maybe enlightenment is a dumb idea.

Originally Posted by ketzer

Well now you are both speaking closer to my language, but I am not sure if I am communicating my point of this thread yet. We look at reality and say it is Maya, illusion, and this is true. Yet it is illusion that we our selves, our multipart multidimensional multi-aspect consciousness selves are creating within those selves. Perhaps though with information that is not self generated...not entirely anyway?

But my point is that this is Maya for a reason, a show with something to show us. Yes sufferings point is to learn how to avoid suffering, just as pain helps us learn how to avoid pain, but it is in the learning how that we learn much more. Suffering and pain just tell us we are not on the right track. Now one can argue that all the things that need to be learned can be learned without suffering and that is an opinion, but I am not so convinced of that. We learn countless things as we go through a lifetime, most of which we are not aware we are learning as we live them. Yet over time we become aware of larger deeper ineffable lessons being learned. We gain facts, knowledge, and wisdom, with each being more integrative and more gestalt like. We move ever deeper from facts and knowledge about the myriad forms at the surface of the Tao, toward wisdom about the mysteries deeper in the Tao. It is the full experience of life that brings this about. Perhaps meditating for 12 hours a day is one more experience that helps, but I am not sure doing it to avoid Maya and find enlightenment is actually getting these monks and gurus to the wisdom any faster then the soldier, farmer, or business man. I expect all experiences in life move one toward wisdom one way or another. Maybe some are better than others, but I am more and more losing my confidence that I can say which are better, there is so much more depth to the life experience that I realized when I was young, when I had all the answers.

.

One needn't meditate 12 hours a day. In fact Vivekananda was all for engagement in Maya. So it's not escaping Maya. That's not really possible, however what is possible is to be in wiser relation to Maya. To enjoy the movie. But hey, that's a choice and it's not something that should be pursued unless one has a deep and earnest desire. So yeah, to each his own. In the end whether it's a hundred lifetimes, a thousand, a million or a billion times a billion lifetimes we'll all end up there, one way or the other.

[A human Being]

If you've ever had a glimpse of the enlightened state, you know it's much more than a dumb idea - for me personally, it became my top priority in life after I'd had that initial glimpse. Everything else pales in comparison, I could acquire all the power, wealth, and notoriety in the world, but it would all be ashes in my mouth if I didn't become enlightened.

Originally Posted by A human Being

If you've ever had a glimpse of the enlightened state, you know it's much more than a dumb idea - for me personally, it became my top priority in life after I'd had that initial glimpse. Everything else pales in comparison, I could acquire all the power, wealth, and notoriety in the world, but it would all be ashes in my mouth if I didn't become enlightened.

Somebody help me out here. I am trying to remember a plot of Star Trek. Thought it was a movie, but could have been a TV episode. Anyway, the antagonist is someone who is obsessed with getting back into this "space cloud"
(can't remember what they called it) in which he was once in (I think) but escaped (or somehow got out). He believes paradise is waiting there for him and he has one last chance to get back, and will do anything to do so. Including killing billions (?? blow up a plant maybe, hard to recal??) in order to alter the trajectory of this space traveling cloud/barrier/doorway so he can intercept it and get drawn back in. Saw it (Maybe dreamt it, IDK) many many years ago.

Does any of ring a bell, or is it just that my bell has been rung one to many times?

P.S.

HA! Got it. Any you all thought I was crazy. Shame on all of you!

If you need me, I will be in the Nexus!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_Generations

Originally Posted by ketzer

Somebody help me out here. I am trying to remember a plot of Star Trek. Thought it was a movie, but could have been a TV episode. Anyway, the antagonist is someone who is obsessed with getting back into this "space cloud"
(can't remember what they called it) in which he was once in (I think) but escaped (or somehow got out). He believes paradise is waiting there for him and he has one last chance to get back, and will do anything to do so. Including killing billions (?? blow up a plant maybe, hard to recal??) in order to alter the trajectory of this space traveling cloud/barrier/doorway so he can intercept it and get drawn back in. Saw it (Maybe dreamt it, IDK) many many years ago.

Does any of ring a bell, or is it just that my bell has been rung one to many times?

Yeah, isn't that the movie with both Kirk & Piccard?

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Yeah, isn't that the movie with both Kirk & Piccard?

It was, I found it an P.S.'d it in above.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Well now you are both speaking closer to my language, but I am not sure if I am communicating my point of this thread yet. We look at reality and say it is Maya, illusion, and this is true. Yet it is illusion that we our selves, our multipart multidimensional multi-aspect consciousness selves are creating within those selves. Perhaps though with information that is not self generated...not entirely anyway?

But my point is that this is Maya for a reason, a show with something to show us. Yes sufferings point is to learn how to avoid suffering, just as pain helps us learn how to avoid pain, but it is in the learning how that we learn much more. Suffering and pain just tell us we are not on the right track. Now one can argue that all the things that need to be learned can be learned without suffering and that is an opinion, but I am not so convinced of that. We learn countless things as we go through a lifetime, most of which we are not aware we are learning as we live them. Yet over time we become aware of larger deeper ineffable lessons being learned. We gain facts, knowledge, and wisdom, with each being more integrative and more gestalt like. We move ever deeper from facts and knowledge about the myriad forms at the surface of the Tao, toward wisdom about the mysteries deeper in the Tao. It is the full experience of life that brings this about. Perhaps meditating for 12 hours a day is one more experience that helps, but I am not sure doing it to avoid Maya and find enlightenment is actually getting these monks and gurus to the wisdom any faster then the soldier, farmer, or business man. I expect all experiences in life move one toward wisdom one way or another. Maybe some are better than others, but I am more and more losing my confidence that I can say which are better, there is so much more depth to the life experience that I realized when I was young, when I had all the answers.

.

Peeps can meditate all day long and not find enlightenment. Peeps can sit on a maintain top and get nothing but a sore butt and piles for their troubles

It's always boils down to the heart of an individual at the end of the day, one's sense of self in reflection of other's, one's self honesty and honesty to other's kindness . The list of qualities is as long as your arm .

Wearing a robe and chanting won't do anything if these qualities and traits are not genuinely present .


x dazzle x

Originally Posted by God-Like

Peeps can meditate all day long and not find enlightenment. Peeps can sit on a maintain top and get nothing but a sore butt and piles for their troubles

It's always boils down to the heart of an individual at the end of the day, one's sense of self in reflection of other's, one's self honesty and honesty to other's kindness . The list of qualities is as long as your arm .

Wearing a robe and chanting won't do anything if these qualities and traits are not genuinely present .


x dazzle x

Yes, I think I agree. I am not against a bit of meditation, reflection, contemplation, but I think if one is to sit on a mountaintop, one should open their eyes and take in some of that beauty. Maya can be a rather pretty illusion, and the ability to experience beauty, IMO, is an important thing to have. Zen gardens and Himalayan monasteries are rather inspiring things as well, but in the end one becomes accustomed to all scenery, and learning to find that beauty and wonder in the ordinary is rather useful too. IDK if there is or is not a best way to go, but I expect that there are those who spent a lifetime walking right by all that other beauty and wonder searching for the best way to wake up from Maya. That doesn't seem like the best way to go to me.

One wonders if the way to waking up has more to do with opening up ones eyes as it does with shutting them??

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Yes, I think I agree. I am not against a bit of meditation, reflection, contemplation, but I think if one is to sit on a mountaintop, one should open their eyes and take in some of that beauty. Maya can be a rather pretty illusion, and the ability to experience beauty, IMO, is an important thing to have. Zen gardens and Himalayan monasteries are rather inspiring things as well, but in the end one becomes accustomed to all scenery, and learning to find that beauty and wonder in the ordinary is rather useful too. IDK if there is or is not a best way to go, but I expect that there are those who walked right by all that other beauty and wonder searching for the way to wake up from Maya. That doesn't seem like the best way to go to me.

ditto, for I am a advocate for meditation for I meditate and self heal 2 hours every day, but there has to be something present that allows the process to unravel and reveal itself .

Maya is a funny old concept based upon what one thinks is real and what isn't or what is true and what isn't .. it's the dog chasing it's tail kinda scenario ..

For myself I like to think the sun is the sun and it also isn't, so when I sungaze I am not thinking I am gazing into some illusory sun ..

I would say if a peep looks upon the universe through illusory eyes then one might as well jump off the illusory cliffs edge .



x daz x

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by A human Being

If you've ever had a glimpse of the enlightened state, you know it's much more than a dumb idea - for me personally, it became my top priority in life after I'd had that initial glimpse. Everything else pales in comparison, I could acquire all the power, wealth, and notoriety in the world, but it would all be ashes in my mouth if I didn't become enlightened.

NICE COMMENT

There is nothing like a person..... speaking from their heart.

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Somebody help me out here. I am trying to remember a plot of Star Trek. Thought it was a movie, but could have been a TV episode. Anyway, the antagonist is someone who is obsessed with getting back into this "space cloud"
(can't remember what they called it) in which he was once in (I think) but escaped (or somehow got out). He believes paradise is waiting there for him and he has one last chance to get back, and will do anything to do so. Including killing billions (?? blow up a plant maybe, hard to recal??) in order to alter the trajectory of this space traveling cloud/barrier/doorway so he can intercept it and get drawn back in. Saw it (Maybe dreamt it, IDK) many many years ago.

Does any of ring a bell, or is it just that my bell has been rung one to many times?

P.S.

HA! Got it. Any you all thought I was crazy. Shame on all of you!

If you need me, I will be in the Nexus!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_Generations

I'm very much an advocate of Jesus' philosophy: 'Seek ye first the kingdom of heaven, and all its righteousness, and all else shall be added unto you' (of course people may disagree about what exactly 'the kingdom of heaven' is - it's my understanding that Jesus was talking about spiritual enlightenment). At the same time, of course, life goes on regardless, and I'm not suggesting that we should just check out of life, I believe we should honour our commitments and be active participants in the world if that's what is called for. But I'm also firmly of the belief, as advocated by the likes of Ramana Maharshi, that our greatest gift to the world is our own awakening, and I also believe that humanity must collectively awaken if it is to avoid destroying itself.