Who is Krishna ?

[kralaro]

Thanks Miss Hepburn, i'm reminding myself that my powers are nothing compared to his so i should rely on his, and for that i relinquish my powers in favor of his. It's all his glory. The controller, the dear one, the source of intelligence and all powers, the incomprehensibly great, the caretaker.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by kralaro

Thanks Miss Hepburn, i'm reminding myself that my powers are nothing compared to his so i should rely on his,
and for that i relinquish my powers in favor of his. It's all his glory.
The controller, the dear one, the source of intelligence and all powers, the incomprehensibly great, the caretaker.

Not many understand this.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Podshell

Which translation to follow?

You can get verbatim translations with reasonable accuracy even from amazoon books like

Best Renditions of Bhagwat Geeta Amazon Rating
Shrimad Bhagwat Geeta Yatharoop 4.8 / 5
Bhagavad Gita by Swami Nikhilananda 4.6 / 5
Bhagvad Gita As It Is English New Edition 4.7 / 5

Yet authoritative deeper meaning of Gita can still be elusive . It requires expert commentary of a person who has truly imbibed it in letter and spirit.
There have been many commentaries on it in Indian languages but dont know any english translations with expert interpretations and commentaries .

When in doubt on a verse raise a query on the verse on a forum . You should be able to get a response / explanation on it easily.

[kralaro]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Ah, surrender - yes...it would be surrendering the ego that says, "I can do this", in order to seek the shelter of God, Krishna, Brahman....whatever.
Old Testament says, My Lord is my refuge.

Miss Hepburn, you know when Arjuna's brother Bheem - who was known as the strongest man at his time had a wrestling duel with a tyrant, Bheem too thought "I can do this", but when the wrestling continued for days with no winner, Bheem approached Sri Krishna and told him "I can't defeat him". Krishna said alright, i give you my power, now go and kill him. Krishna also told Bheem about a secret weakness of that king. Of course with Krishna's blessing the tyrant was killed. Krishna, Bheem, Arjuna freed the kings who had been kept imprisoned by him, giving them their kingdoms back, and appointed the dead tyrant's son as the successive ruler of his kingdom.

[Jainarayan]

Originally Posted by Podshell

Which translation to follow?

Personally I prefer Swami Mukundananda's and Swami Tapasyananda's versions. I'm not wild about the dumbed-down versions done by western writers, though I have a number of them (which is why I'm not wild about them). I categorically dislike Prabhupada's, for the most part. He uses phrases that are simply not in the Sanskrit ... 10.21 "I am the Soupersoul ..." for aham ātmā. While it's true ātmā has no direct translation into English, it certainly doesn't mean soupersoul.

He created the phrase Supreme Personality of Godhead and uses it where the Sanskrit is śrī bhagavān uvāca, which simply means "The Blessed Lord said". Śrī is an honorific that means honored, revered, even blessed. But there is no way one can justify torturing śrī bhagavān uvāca into "The Supreme Personality of Godhead said". Oddly, I know why he uses it. It goes to how he teaches the nature and relationship of Krishna in the divine order. His purports, as far as I'm concerned, are completely off the rails.

[kralaro]

Jainarayan ji, I guess you meant 10.20 instead of 10.21. This "I am the Supersoul" is ISKCON's translation ( https://vedabase.io/en/library/bg/10/20/ ) while Prabhupada's translation is "I am the Self" ( https://asitis.com/10/20.html ). In word to word translation Prabhupada has translated "atma" as "soul" which seems fine to me but when putting it together he changed "soul" to "Self".

I checked out Swami Mukundananda's translation, picked up 7.15 'cause i've already discussed it in this thread. Mukundananda ji has begun the translation with "Four" ( https://www.holy-bhagavad-gita.org/chapter/7/verse/15 ) but it's not there in the word to word translation. Sorry to say this but the arrogance of trying to improve upon Sri Krishna's words :|

Checked out Swami Tapasyananda's translation, and i'm liking it:
https://ia801802.us.archive.org/16/i...pasyananda.pdf

[Jainarayan]

Originally Posted by kralaro

Jainarayan ji, I guess you meant 10.20 instead of 10.21.

Yes, 10.20. I had a mental block. The newer printings have Self. I don't know how or when or why it was changed from Supersoul but I'm glad it was. Supersoul just grated on my nerves.

Atma is a hard word to translate. Many of these translations are directed towards westen readers who are familiar with "soul" but not with what atma really is. I've had conversations with people who got the vapors and clutched their pearls when I told them that our atma, our "soul" is non-different from Brahman... tat tvam asi, aham bramasmi, etc. They are used to the duality of western religion. To say we are non-different from God is tantamount to blasphemy to them.

I'm not sure if it's arrogance, but rather a "dumbing down". "Four kinds of people", imo, is unnecessary. I would rather see Those ignorant of knowledge, those who lazily follow their lower nature though capable of knowing Me, those with deluded intellect, and those with a demoniac nature do not surrender unto Me. There's your four kinds of people.

Tapasyananda takes liberties too. In 2.2 he translates as O Arjuna! Whence has this loathsome stupidity come upon you in this crisis?

kutastva kashmalamidam vishame samupasthitam
kutaḥ—wherefrom; tvā—to you; kaśmalam—delusion; idam—this; viṣhame—in this hour of peril; samupasthitam—overcome

kaśmalam can mean despair, weakess of mind, dejection, faintheartedness, timidity. But I don't see either loathsome or stupidity in the English/Sanskrit dictionary. However, I do get a chuckle out of the translation and use it myself talking to someonewho says or does something stupid: "whence comes this loathsome stupidity upon you?"

[Podshell]

I found this online, perhaps you could test it out with queries.

https://poe.com/PrabhupadaSays

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Jainarayan

... tat tvam asi, aham bramasmi, etc. They are used to the duality of western religion. To say we are non-different from God is tantamount to blasphemy to them.

Yes I do understand about this. Its not just western religion ,even in eastern religions also people are used to duality . But non-duality or in-dwelling God are very much in Christianity also .

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.

Trinity doctrine

"The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" are not names for different parts of God, but one name for God because three persons exist in God as one entity.They cannot be separate from one another.

.
While the duality envisaged in Christianity or for that matter in eastern religions including Hinduism has better foundation (in that individuals are finite with limitations /start/ end and God is infinite/unending/ without beginning) , in reality many a times it translates into people creating arbitrary distance between God and themselves and not wanting to listen to His message (forget about following the message) . While that hurts people only and can create a vicious circle of negativity , self doubt , diffidence , over confidence , pride,anger , hatred , mistrust etc , a message of God dwelling in self and others is very much needed respite for coming out of such vicious circles unscathed gradually in harmonious and peaceful manner .

Further if you give enough thought , not believing God hood in human (like Jesus) too can be tantamount to blasphemy ! God is omni-potent,omni-scient ,omni- present sovereign ruler of the universe . If HE wants to reside in the human body , who we are to deny that freedom to HIM . Like we all adults grown-ups play with our kids and become like Kid with kids with limited capabilities , why should we deny that fun/excitement for God ! Absolutely God is no slave to anyone and He can and will do what it thinks right for HIM to do and nobody can prescribe limits for HIM .

I dont want to force my view here and very much ok with duality views of most people across globe . So long as that helps people navigating the vicissitudes of life , its great. I just think that alternative views if it helps in life , should be considered.

[kralaro]

BTW not everything in the Gita makes sense to me (e.g. 18.47, 18.61-62), which is fine as that doesn't mean i should reject what does resonate with me from the Gita.