Best book on spiritualism

[sky]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

The link provides interesting information, particularly:

"... when death takes place, when the body dies away, the mental current, driven by the thirst for more existence, will spring up again with the support of a new physical body, one which has just come into being through the meeting of sperm and egg. Thus, rebirth takes place immediately after death."

Whether or not rebirth takes place immediately is not clear to me despite the statement to that effect. Under hypnosis, subjects have remembered the time between "lives" --- a period of life review and reflection. The article may be a statement of Buddhist philosophy according to the writer, but that does not make it fact.

In any case, the non-physical essence ("mental current" in the above quote) does appear to have continuity. Obviously, there is not a "permanent entity as we change from moment to moment, as the article also indicates, but this may be splitting hairs.

I welcome your comments on this.

Different Schools have different ideas regarding the space between death and rebirth. I haven't come across any Suttas regarding this, I must have a look around. I know Tibetan Schools do say 49 days but Tibetan Buddhism is embroiled in Culture so maybe that has something to do with it. It isn't important really as Buddhism is not about blind faith and proving these teachings as being correct is impossible. As you pointed out, they are not facts.
This may interest you.


Now, Kalamas, don’t go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, ‘This contemplative is our teacher.’ When you know for yourselves that, ‘These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness’ — then you should enter & remain in them.”
Buddha.


The Kalama Sutra.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

The link provides interesting information, particularly:

"... when death takes place, when the body dies away, the mental current, driven by the thirst for more existence, will spring up again with the support of a new physical body, one which has just come into being through the meeting of sperm and egg. Thus, rebirth takes place immediately after death."

Whether or not rebirth takes place immediately is not clear to me despite the statement to that effect. Under hypnosis, subjects have remembered the time between "lives" --- a period of life review and reflection. The article may be a statement of Buddhist philosophy according to the writer, but that does not make it fact.

In any case, the non-physical essence ("mental current" in the above quote) does appear to have continuity. Obviously, there is not a "permanent entity as we change from moment to moment, as the article also indicates, but this may be splitting hairs.

I welcome your comments on this.

Hello Still Waters,

The older sister of my girlfriend, tender half, died some 4 years ago. For two years I could feel her in the limbs, lost, when I would focus on her. Then she found some kind of light, a nice garden to stay in the bardo. Last time I focussed on her, last week, she was a three months old fetus inside a woman. Could not connect yet to the new mother.

Not that it is something that I focus on often, it would be interesting if I could retrace her when she is reborn and go met the new family with her old sister from a previous life.

Regards

Antoine

Buddhism generally teaches rebirth, not reincarnation:

https://www.lionsroar.com/just-more-of-the-same/

[spiritsoul]

My favorites-
Silence of the heart -Robert Adams
Be as You are- Ramana Maharshi
Ashtavakra gita - translated by Bart Marshall
I am That - Nisargadatta
I also like to read quotes by others like Adyashanti, Jean Klein,

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by sky123

I'll probably get shouted at but,

It was George Keith in 1690 or thereabouts. There is a very interesting article but I can't post a link, sorry.
Google Reincarnation in America MDPI

There's no shouting out forthcoming.

My spiritual mentor left the Theosophical Society and became the first female mahamandeleswara in the orders of Shankaracharya and was revered as a Hindu sage when she was on the earth plane.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by sky123

' I like where this is going '
I feel a Migraine coming on Thinking to much is a strain on my old brain.


I stopped believing in Reincarnation as a youngster, it never made much sense to me. When I found Buddhism then everything came together. I also don't delve much into higher or lower planes it's not something I have thought about so I can't comment.

Reincarnation as far as I remember from my Catholic Education refers to a soul which is another belief I left behind in my youth.
Buddhism makes sense to me personally, I find the Teaching of ' Anatta' fits well into my inner thoughts.
I remember thinking what is the purpose of a Heaven if you keep dying and being reborn again. I know both Reincarnation and Rebirth are referring to to the non-physical essence but Christianity doesn't explain when the cycle ends or how it ends whereas Buddhism does.
Karma makes common sense as you can see it's effect in this life, according to what I was taught it was all about sin, sin and more sin that decided where you went after death, they are obsessed with sin.. Buddhism is more about being responsible for your own Rebirth, you and you alone create Karma and only you are responsible. I like that

It is well-said by Ramana that the "reincarnating ego is of the lower planes". I agree with you that Christianity doesn't address when the cycle ends or how it ends.

Regarding karma, which "makes common sense" to you, what does karma mean exactly to you if there is no "soul" (Anatta) ? Is there a "mental current" (soul-like to some degree) on the lower planes which loses its dream-like "reality" when one awakens?

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by spiritsoul

My favorites-
Silence of the heart -Robert Adams
Be as You are- Ramana Maharshi
Ashtavakra gita - translated by Bart Marshall
I am That - Nisargadatta
I also like to read quotes by others like Adyashanti, Jean Klein,

Great choices. I just started "by chance" a small meditation group of intensely focused sincere, young investigators of truth and, at one of our future sessions, I am planning to invite a woman who spent time in Nisargadatta's presence in India and is very familiar with his writings though she was not a disciple of his. The group is interested in hearing from some one who had direct contact with him, and it will happen.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Legrand

Hello Still Waters,

The older sister of my girlfriend, tender half, died some 4 years ago. For two years I could feel her in the limbs, lost, when I would focus on her. Then she found some kind of light, a nice garden to stay in the bardo. Last time I focussed on her, last week, she was a three months old fetus inside a woman. Could not connect yet to the new mother.

Not that it is something that I focus on often, it would be interesting if I could retrace her when she is reborn and go met the new family with her old sister from a previous life.

Regards

Antoine

If you read some of the Zen classics, there is at least one Master who was able to monitor one of his disciples getting distracted through several lifetimes and then was able to recognize him when they came together again. While I have not had interest in doing this, I understand where you are coming from. However, for some reason, I am starting to investigate this right now.

As one matures spiritually, one realizes that there are various planes of existence and some well defined transitional states (bardos in Tibetan Buddhism, as you duly noted) and, when one can transcend, one can see a bigger picture especially in relation to loved ones.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by sky123

Different Schools have different ideas regarding the space between death and rebirth. I haven't come across any Suttas regarding this, I must have a look around. I know Tibetan Schools do say 49 days but Tibetan Buddhism is embroiled in Culture so maybe that has something to do with it. It isn't important really as Buddhism is not about blind faith and proving these teachings as being correct is impossible. As you pointed out, they are not facts.
This may interest you.


Now, Kalamas, don’t go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, ‘This contemplative is our teacher.’ When you know for yourselves that, ‘These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness’ — then you should enter & remain in them.”
Buddha.


The Kalama Sutra.

Tibetan Buddhists do say that the space between death and rebirth is 49 days but I think that statement was made so that mourners could limit their mourning to a limited time frame. Edgar Cayce has stated that the interval can extend to a number of "what you call earth years".

I use the various things you mentioned above (scriptures, traditions, legends, etc. ) as POINTERS to things that I have to investigate and that is how I live my life. Discover what resonates and VALIDATE through contemplation and direct experiences. Shortly before my spiritual mentor left the earth plane, she told me: "You are an experienced meditator. Meditate and all will be revealed." This would seem to be in keeping with the practice of the Buddha.

It may not be a coincidence that I attended a presentation at the United Nations Enlightenment Society last Thursday (December 12th, 2019) by a medical doctor (cardiologist) from Brazil who is also a physicist and a Spiritist. He gave us the same very thought-provoking presentation that he had given earlier this month to the World Psychiatric Association in Jerusalem. There does seem to be a way to validate some of the things that we are discussing.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

It is well-said by Ramana that the "reincarnating ego is of the lower planes". I agree with you that Christianity doesn't address when the cycle ends or how it ends.

Regarding karma, which "makes common sense" to you, what does karma mean exactly to you if there is no "soul" (Anatta) ? Is there a "mental current" (soul-like to some degree) on the lower planes which loses its dream-like "reality" when one awakens?

No soul but Mental Continuum which is what's carried from one life to another...
Actions ( Karma) leaves an imprint on our consciousness and it is the imprints than travel with us in each Rebirth.
The imprints could be seen as seeds and our actions decide which one's ripen or wither. I see it as a little garden in my mind I water and nurture the positive seeds and let the negative wither ( well I try ). We reap the fruits of our efforts which can be seen as ' Cause and effect ' which is Karma...