Where Do We Go at Death if not heaven or hell?

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Before we get to that question, wouldn't it be more wise to rather ask how to perfectly define both heaven and hell first?

The first scripture in the Bible provides some insight about Heaven which I find amazing.

"In the beginning, God [Elohim] created the heaven(s) and Earth."

Notice I wrote heaven(s) because some translations use heaven and others use heavens. I translate the word as being heavens. There are some scriptures that support the belief there are 7 heavens.

Genesis 1:6 reads "And God said, d“Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. 8 And God called the expanse Heaven." Most modern translations do not say Heaven but now say Sky. But the Hebrew word for Heavens in Genesis 1:1 is the same word as in Genesis 1:8!

Reflecting on this Heaven, most people have already been to this Heaven numerous times. Another Heaven is where rain, etc. is stored. Many people have been to this Heaven also.

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

The first scripture in the Bible provides some insight about Heaven which I find amazing.

"In the beginning, God [Elohim] created the heaven(s) and Earth."

Notice I wrote heaven(s) because some translations use heaven and others use heavens. I translate the word as being heavens. There are some scriptures that support the belief there are 7 heavens.

Genesis 1:6 reads "And God said, d“Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. 8 And God called the expanse Heaven." Most modern translations do not say Heaven but now say Sky. But the Hebrew word for Heavens in Genesis 1:1 is the same word as in Genesis 1:8!

Interesting, must be cool to know Hebrew and Aramaic.

All this talk about re-incarnation and scripture though...
surely for various people scripture is a mystical source of revelation
when you get into the revealing aspect of scripture, that takes over
once you've got into that, criticisms of scripture kind of have no meaning any more and you've gone beyond the literal.

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by VinceField

Of course I know that we don't have the original writings. The presence of scientific errors has no bearing on the authenticity of scripture as divinely inspired. Being inspired by God does not mean you possess all knowledge of everything. It means you possess knowledge of the nature of God through direct revelation. Again you present no logic in your arguments and display a complete lack of understanding.

No, it seems that you have a lack of understanding. Among those scientific errors what is commonly accepted by most Christians as a literal fact, is the creation of Earth and life as we know it about 6000 years ago, while the Earth is in fact about 4 billion years old. Plus life has been around long before those 6000 years. If the bible writers were truly possessed by a holy spirit (which is a part of god, and god is all-knowing) one would expect them to be completely accurate in terms of science, otherwise it takes away the credibility. Perhaps you have never truly thought about it why a lot of people are atheists.

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

The first scripture in the Bible provides some insight about Heaven which I find amazing.

"In the beginning, God [Elohim] created the heaven(s) and Earth."

Notice I wrote heaven(s) because some translations use heaven and others use heavens. I translate the word as being heavens. There are some scriptures that support the belief there are 7 heavens.

Genesis 1:6 reads "And God said, d“Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. 8 And God called the expanse Heaven." Most modern translations do not say Heaven but now say Sky. But the Hebrew word for Heavens in Genesis 1:1 is the same word as in Genesis 1:8!

Reflecting on this Heaven, most people have already been to this Heaven numerous times. Another Heaven is where rain, etc. is stored. Many people have been to this Heaven also.

It's obvious that there are different ways to define 'heaven' such as the sky and outer space itself. But I was refering to heaven as in the afterlife.

Originally Posted by BigJohn

The first scripture in the Bible provides some insight about Heaven which I find amazing.

"In the beginning, God [Elohim] created the heaven(s) and Earth."

Notice I wrote heaven(s) because some translations use heaven and others use heavens. I translate the word as being heavens. There are some scriptures that support the belief there are 7 heavens.

Genesis 1:6 reads "And God said, d“Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. 8 And God called the expanse Heaven." Most modern translations do not say Heaven but now say Sky. But the Hebrew word for Heavens in Genesis 1:1 is the same word as in Genesis 1:8!

Reflecting on this Heaven, most people have already been to this Heaven numerous times. Another Heaven is where rain, etc. is stored. Many people have been to this Heaven also.

I think another hint or clue making what your saying here probable is
Pual talking about the 3rd Heaven. Which confirms multiple Heavens.

I think a person that truly wants to better understand Biblical writings
should question the English words and dig deeper into the original
language a document was written in.

[VinceField]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

No, it seems that you have a lack of understanding. Among those scientific errors what is commonly accepted by most Christians as a literal fact, is the creation of Earth and life as we know it about 6000 years ago, while the Earth is in fact about 4 billion years old. Plus life has been around long before those 6000 years. If the bible writers were truly possessed by a holy spirit (which is a part of god, and god is all-knowing) one would expect them to be completely accurate in terms of science, otherwise it takes away the credibility. Perhaps you have never truly thought about it why a lot of people are atheists.

I already proved that you are wrong. You're just repeating the same failed argument. Divine inspiration does not provide scientific knowledge, it provides knowledge of God. I've been involved in spirituality and philosophy for nearly 2 decades and I've only been a Christian for 2 years so yea, I've contemplated other modes of thought. None of them stand up to the truth of Christianity, as can be demonstrated here as your arguments are so easily refuted.

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by VinceField

I already proved that you are wrong. You're just repeating the same failed argument. Divine inspiration does not provide scientific knowledge, it provides knowledge of God. I've been involved in spirituality and philosophy for nearly 2 decades and I've only been a Christian for 2 years so yea, I've contemplated other modes of thought. None of them stand up to the truth of Christianity, as can be demonstrated here as your arguments are so easily refuted.

Well, this so-called knowledge of god also states that god created the earth 6000 years ago, which is IMPOSSIBLE. So don't try to climb around it. The only thing that is easily refuted here is that fairytale book of yours.

[sky]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Well, this so-called knowledge of god also states that god created the earth 6000 years ago, which is IMPOSSIBLE. So don't try to climb around it. The only thing that is easily refuted here is that fairytale book of yours.

Well I know the exact time and date

The 6,000 year age was arrived at by James Ussher, a 17th century Irish Archbishop who counted up estimates of the ages of Abraham’s family listed in the Old Testament and calculated that the creation began (on the Julian calendar) on Saturday, October 22, 4004 BC, at 6 pm.

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

Well, this so-called knowledge of god also states that god created the earth 6000 years ago, which is IMPOSSIBLE. So don't try to climb around it. The only thing that is easily refuted here is that fairytale book of yours.

I would say you are correct saying the Earth is much older than 6,000 years old.

I don't think God or the Book is stating such a claim.

There are people that do state this.

The Bible is not a scientific account of Gods Creation.

It is Taku Wakan. (A "Sacred Mystery" of Spirit and uses lots of symbology)

It says God is a Cedar Tree. It is not saying, God is a Tree, that is the Cedar Tree.
It is talking about the Spirit/Essence of a Cedar Tree.
The Cedar Tree does not shed it's leaves it is evergreen.
It is rooted with roots that keep it stable and gives it the longest Life and taller than any other Tree in it's area. Etc. Etc.
The Cedar Tree is a symbol.

People take things like "No serpent will harm you" and they handle snakes to prove their faith in God.
Many have been bitten.
Did God say to handle snakes to prove your faith?
Or did this inspired word have a Spiritual meaning and serpent symbology have a deeper meaning?

Sky is correct that the 6,000yrs. is really a family line that goes back to Adam.

There is a disconnect between time frames of when scrolls were written and
reading them in the present day. The Hebrew style of recording and expressing themselves, has to be
examined and understood, to an extent to start bringing out certain truths in the Bible.
To just write all of it off as a fairy tale is a bit premature.
Much of the Bible I do not understand, so I put it in the back of my mind.
I don't just write it off as a fairy tale. I see if it will mature.

But to each his own. I'm really babbling on about things that really aren't important to me.

[sky]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

I would say you are correct saying the Earth is much older than 6,000 years old.

I don't think God or the Book is stating such a claim.

There are people that do state this.

The Bible is not a scientific account of Gods Creation.

It is Taku Wakan. (A "Sacred Mystery" of Spirit and uses lots of symbology)

It says God is a Cedar Tree. It is not saying, God is a Tree, that is the Cedar Tree.
It is talking about the Spirit/Essence of a Cedar Tree.
The Cedar Tree does not shed it's leaves it is evergreen.
It is rooted with roots that keep it stable and gives it the longest Life and taller than any other Tree in it's area. Etc. Etc.
The Cedar Tree is a symbol.

People take things like "No serpent will harm you" and they handle snakes to prove their faith in God.
Many have been bitten.
Did God say to handle snakes to prove your faith?
Or did this inspired word have a Spiritual meaning and serpent symbology have a deeper meaning?

Sky is correct that the 6,000yrs. is really a family line that goes back to Adam.

There is a disconnect between time frames of when scrolls were written and
reading them in the present day. The Hebrew style of recording and expressing themselves, has to be
examined and understood, to an extent to start bringing out certain truths in the Bible.
To just write all of it off as a fairy tale is a bit premature.
Much of the Bible I do not understand, so I put it in the back of my mind.
I don't just write it off as a fairy tale. I see if it will mature.

But to each his own. I'm really babbling on about things that really aren't important to me.

The smell of a Cedar Tree is beautiful