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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Science & Spirituality

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  #11  
Old 17-08-2022, 02:01 PM
Justin Case Justin Case is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Hi,

So if anyone wants to rely only on what they pick up with their 5 limited senses...aka, the naked eye...not believing in anything beyond this....
well, there is not much one can say to that...it speaks for itself.

Again, constructivism can be a long drawn out learning approach, and the bottom line is will you do it or not?

Whether Robert Lanza is right or wrong, I can't say. What I do know is that this subject is SO screwed up data-wise, it's not remotely funny. It IS there ... it's just that historically what information we may have had - is long gone.
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"You have to work really hard, and you have to be prepared to fail over and over again, and to make mistakes over and over again ... we have to experiment with every stupid wrong idea before we get on to the right one."
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"It isn't that they can't see the solution, it's that they can't see the problem."
G. K. Chesterton (1874 - 1936)
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  #12  
Old 17-08-2022, 02:09 PM
JustASimpleGuy
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Science explores the external. Spirituality explores the internal. Never the twain shall meet.
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  #13  
Old 17-08-2022, 02:57 PM
Justin Case Justin Case is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
Science explores the external. Spirituality explores the internal. Never the twain shall meet.

If the "science" aspect is correct, the two have to meet up.

The "spiritual" aspect boils down to interpretations that, when subjected to a quest in religious history ... fall apart. Top of the line is Christianity, which can be traced, as far as origins, back to the Zoroastrian religion and their end times picture. Another interpretation is reincarnation ... a look at that history shows it developed over the centuries and didn't become anything like what we hear today until around the 300s BC. It's changed more since then.

...........

As an add-on ... there's an article here where biocentrism is challenged by a counter argument:

http://nirmukta.com/2009/12/14/bioce...ious-universe/
__________________
"You have to work really hard, and you have to be prepared to fail over and over again, and to make mistakes over and over again ... we have to experiment with every stupid wrong idea before we get on to the right one."
Dr Lee Smolin
............
"It isn't that they can't see the solution, it's that they can't see the problem."
G. K. Chesterton (1874 - 1936)
............
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  #14  
Old 17-08-2022, 03:51 PM
JustASimpleGuy
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If science can explore and examine by definition it's not ineffable.

At one time I was a big fan of Orch-OR as a potential spiritual solution and it is a nifty hypothesis, however that's still within the realm of physical reality, not Spirit.
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  #15  
Old 17-08-2022, 04:38 PM
Justin Case Justin Case is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
If science can explore and examine by definition it's not ineffable.

At one time I was a big fan of Orch-OR as a potential spiritual solution and it is a nifty hypothesis, however that's still within the realm of physical reality, not Spirit.

With regard to consciousness - the approach via science according to NDEs is that - they don't know. Consciousness, according the them, is NOT a findable part of the physical brain.

This presents a problem with NDEs regarding the fact that they now have to be verified flatline brain dead. If they are not brain dead ... where is this information coming from? One good example is Nan Bush's alleged NDE ... but she was not brain dead. She saw flying yin-yang symbols that said:

“This is all there is. This is all there ever was. This is It. Anything else you
remember is a joke. You are not real. You never existed. Your life never
existed. The world never existed. It was a game you we re allowed to invent. There was never anything, or anyone. That’s the joke—that it was all a joke.”
“Whatever you remember is part of the joke. Your mother, your
babies—they were never real. This is all there is, all there ever was. Just
this.”
“Your life never existed. The world never existed. Your family never
existed. You were allowed to imagine it. You we re allowed to make it up. It was never there. There was nothing there. There never was anything there. You're not real."
(Dancing Past the Dark.)

So, where did this come from? Sounds paranormal to me. Her consciousness / spirit / whatever you want to call it, was still there in her body, and was being manipulated by SOMETHING.

Another example is Eben Alexander, who was not flatline brain dead either, and was told by OM (AKA God) that evil was necessary.

"Evil was present in all the other universes as well, but only in the tiniest trace amounts. Evil was necessary because without it free will was
impossible, and without free will there could be no growth—no
forward movement, no chance for us to become what God longed for
us to be. Horrible and all-powerful as evil sometimes seemed to be in a
world like ours, in the larger picture love was overwhelmingly dominant,
and it would ultimately be triumphant."


The problem with THIS picture is that "evil" is a bio-mechanical brain malfunction, that COULD BE FIXED by this "other side," and then we'd only have to deal with bad and stupid stuff, instead of killings, rape, and everything else. Putin is the perfect example. He has no empathy, doesn't care who dies as long as he gets what HE wants.

This is NECESSARY? Really?

All of the component parts to these pictures deal with consciousness as the root of the being involved. When you die, whatever it is leaves the physical body, and where you wind up is another story completely.

How you define this - as of now - is up to you. Just keep it simple until we get answers ... if they EVER come.
__________________
"You have to work really hard, and you have to be prepared to fail over and over again, and to make mistakes over and over again ... we have to experiment with every stupid wrong idea before we get on to the right one."
Dr Lee Smolin
............
"It isn't that they can't see the solution, it's that they can't see the problem."
G. K. Chesterton (1874 - 1936)
............
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  #16  
Old 17-08-2022, 07:31 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
Science explores the external. Spirituality explores the internal. Never the twain shall meet.
Science and spirituality may seem to be directly opposed, but surely they have the same source and so they must meet at some point.

As you say, science explores the external but science can never fully understand and explain the external until science has begun to investigate the internal.

And spirituality explores the internal but the apparent external is the field of experience for Consciousness. And understanding the external helps us to understand the internal - as below, so above.

Peace
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  #17  
Old 17-08-2022, 08:22 PM
Justin Case Justin Case is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Science and spirituality may seem to be directly opposed, but surely they have the same source and so they must meet at some point.

With so many people "looking for answers" - it should be obvious that we don't HAVE any "answers." That in itself is a problem. Religious history shows culture after culture coming up with completely different "explanations" and everyone just follows along.

If you look deeper into history, and the amount of hallucinogenics that were taken by the ancients to make a "connection" to this spiritual realm, and the fact that we have our own hallucinogenic (endogenous DMT) in our system ... is it possible this is all an inherited hallucinogenic / drug-based picture we have been handing down, generation after generation? There is "proof" this spiritual world exists ... but no defining "answers." Everyone is "looking" for answers ... but after all this time, all we still have is guesswork.
__________________
"You have to work really hard, and you have to be prepared to fail over and over again, and to make mistakes over and over again ... we have to experiment with every stupid wrong idea before we get on to the right one."
Dr Lee Smolin
............
"It isn't that they can't see the solution, it's that they can't see the problem."
G. K. Chesterton (1874 - 1936)
............
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