Gautama Siddhartha

[sky]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

he's put up tons of videos on youtube in the last few years so i cant find it anymore but there used to be a video this woman made who was visiting his community and they were serving fried pork for lunch, i dunno why but that seemed odd to me for an enlightened buddhist monk.

Why does it feel odd ?
When you were a Benedictine Monk did you not see your fellow Monks eating meat. the Rule of Saint Benedict forbade meat, but some Monastic Orders started eating it regularly.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

he's put up tons of videos on youtube in the last few years so i cant find it anymore but there used to be a video this woman made who was visiting his community and they were serving fried pork for lunch, i dunno why but that seemed odd to me for an enlightened buddhist monk.

I have seen many Buddhist monks eat pork.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

The 'transformation of poisons' mimics the scriptures added at the end of the Gospel of Mark which talks about drinking poison as an identifying mark of a Christian.

I noted that your quote did not include my entire comment but instead merely quoted the point with which I explicitly disagreed. Below is my complete post.

Having said that, your scriptural reference is interesting.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I went to some Tibetan Buddhist meetings in NYC where tantric practices were discussed and it is quite different in the depths from what is presented in that article.

The description of Tantric in that article would not appeal to me at all personally. On the one hand, I can see how it could be used to transcend but the danger is that it could also be a way of justifying indulgence. I won't judge, but I personally would not be drawn to such gatherings. ("Since the practice of Tantra focuses on the transformation of poisons into wisdom, the yogic circles came together in tantric feasts, often in sacred sites (pitha) and places (ksetra) which included dancing, singing, consort practices and the ingestion of taboo substances like alcohol, urine, and meat.")

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by pixiedust

Your wisdom and candor is a welcome breath of fresh air in this section, Still Waters

Thank you, pixiedust. I follow your posts with great interest!

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by sentient

Some thoughts on Jhanas ….

Even though I really do enjoy Ajahn Brahm’s talks, Leigh Brasington’s description of the Jhanas is so step-by-step comprehensible.
Imo. The impermanence and letting go also becomes evident.

From the object of meditation (which can be variety of things), but let’s say the breath in the nostrils – to not noticing breathing anymore – to letting go into the pleasant sensation of ‘going under’ …… (& this might be an ego-freak-out point for some, in which case the whole exercise is diverted into an exercise of endurance of pain whilst holding fast onto the consciousness of breath).

*

But somehow, I have never quite entered into the 2nd and the 3rd Jhana & bypassing those, entered into the 4th instead … (But maybe this is just how Leigh explains the 2nd and the 3rd).

I suppose the 2nd and the 3rd Jhana could become “self-indulgent”?
One Tibetan Buddhist Centre I went to, there was a resident meditator there who seemed ‘stuck’ on “glee & joy”, a very self-satisfied state like a cat that had just eaten the canary.

Similarly, me thinks, one can also get ‘stuck’ holding onto the effort of staying mindful of the breath & not trusting to let go.
So, I guess this way these Jhanas can also represent and show us where our ‘fear barriers’ are.
And perhaps “selling Dharma to others” – might be us “selling” our own fear barriers, which keep us in our specific ‘corral’.

*

I think I had coined up a name for the 4th as “the switchboard”, because from that totally neutral stillness point one can intend where to go & switch into the subconscious energy-body. (A bit like Yoga Nidra).
From there the “windhorse” takes one into “seeing” (experiencing without an experiencer) something. And once “seen” – the trusty horse brings one back and the mind afterwards downloads the experience into words and concepts.

*

The 5th ad the 6th Jhanas “The Sphere of Limitless Space and the Limitless Consciousness” – those I see as Ever-Present, whether intuited or sensed by the experiencer or experienced directly without the experiencer. Experiencer having become a point Zero.

*

Though I’m not entirely sure what I have been saying here, so it is a sketch.
Bought a Blue Cheese dip by accident & ate some of it before I went to sleep. Then having had vivid awake dreams/hallucinations - I don’t think I have quite woken up from them as yet.
But then again, maybe it wasn’t an accident. Who knows (?)

When it rains – let’s do rain.
When things get ambiguous - let’s do _____________.


*

The second and third jhanas (as I understand them) are temporary and short lived with the "Joy" of the 2nd jhana (being akin to an "AHA MOMENT") and the happiness in the 3rd jhana associated with the discovery lasting a tad longer. However, after reading your post, I can see how people can indeed get "stuck" in the 2nd and 3rd jhanas and never get to the 4th jhana.

My understanding once again is that the 4th jhana is the EQUANIMITY stage where one can look back and say,"Of course. Why didn't I see this before?" (I am obviously oversimplifying this reaction with the second part, but the "of course" part is really the stabilizing equanimity mood in the 4th jhana.) The 4th jhana allows one to move on to the next discovery and not get "stuck".

Nice post but why did you stop short of the last two of the supra-mundane jhanas?

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I noted that your quote did not include my entire comment but instead merely quoted the point with which I explicitly disagreed.

Moderators have been encouraging us to only quote up to two sentences. Just trying to do my part.

Originally Posted by BigJohn

I have seen many Buddhist monks eat pork.

and many are of course not highly enlightened or aware. it has nothing to do with a rule, it has to do with the acute awareness one is eating the muscle from some body part of another living being. i believe it would be impossible for a very highly evolved being to put such a thing willingly into their body. others can have other opinions of course!

[BigJohn]

Followers of Kwan Yin are vegetarians. Their version of vegetarianism include fish, chicken, pork, duck, etc...... no beef.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

It may seem "odd" to you for "an enlightened Buddhist monk" to eat meat but, even though I am a vegetarian, eating meat is not one of my standards for "enlightenment".

it is for me but only because it is based on my own personal experience. other "human body identifications" also apply such as sex. when one no longer identifies with this animal body and it's mind, the delusions it presents are seen through. most people are appalled at the idea of eating their pets. eating a horse or dolphin or gorilla why? because we see the being within these animals. well cows and chickens and fish also are beings. living things just like us with emotions and feelings and feel pleasure and pain. so most persons are naturally appalled at the idea of eating other living things they relate to as other beings, like their pets and the higher intelligence animals, but then as one advances in awareness, one is aware all living creatures are beings as well and should be treated how we wish to be treated. the zen monks who sweep the sidewalks to not accidently step on and kill an insect comes to mind.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

It may seem "odd" to you for "an enlightened Buddhist monk" to eat meat but, even though I am a vegetarian, eating meat is not one of my standards for "enlightenment".

Why am I not surprised to hear you say this,.