Which me is me?

[Gem]

I took this idea from Echart Tolle's autobiographical account of his experience of going from deep depression and suicidal thoughts to a life of happiness in less than a day.

This is what he describes

“I cannot live with myself any longer.” This was the thought that kept repeating itself in my mind. Then suddenly I became aware of what a peculiar thought it was. “Am I one or two? If I cannot live with myself, there must be two of me: the ‘I’ and the ‘self’ that ‘I’ cannot live with.” “Maybe,” I thought, “only one of them is real” (http://ir.nmu.org.ua/bitstream/handl...pdf?sequence=1). (Audio book: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pexwgk6pabQ)

Discuss.

[vespa68]

It definately was not in a day. There are many steps involved in letting your higher self take over but he could not explain all that in a book. I did like his book however because he did explain how things work but its not so easy as he says. He is talking about facing fears, facing oneslef to find the highest truth of who you are. This takes a long time and what he describes was only the first time it happened to him. But belive me he had much further to go along.

Not sure I undrrstood your title by the way.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by vespa68

It definately was not in a day. There are many steps involved in letting your higher self take over but he could not explain all that in a book. I did like his book however because he did explain how things work but its not so easy as he says. He is talking about facing fears, facing oneslef to find the highest truth of who you are. This takes a long time and what he describes was only the first time it happened to him. But belive me he had much further to go along.

Not sure I undrrstood your title by the way.

The title is explained in this sentence:

If I cannot live with myself, there must be two of me: the ‘I’ and the ‘self’ that ‘I’ cannot live with.” “Maybe,” I thought, “only one of them is real”.

He claims there was an overnight transformation from the night before, which is described in the the quote in the OP.
The next morning he describes as:

I was awakened by the chirping of a bird outside the window. I had never heard such a sound before. My eyes were still closed, and I saw the image of a precious diamond. Yes, if a diamond could make a sound, this is what it would be like. I opened my eyes. The first light of dawn was filtering through the curtains. Without any thought, I felt, I knew, that there is infinitely more to light than we realize. That soft luminosity filtering through the curtains was love itself. Tears came into my eyes. I got up and walked around the room. I recognized the room, and yet I knew that I had never truly seen it before. Everything was fresh and pristine, as if it had just come into existence. I picked up things, a pencil, an empty bottle, marveling at the beauty and aliveness of it all. That day I walked around the city in utter amazement at the miracle of life on earth, as if I had just been born into this world.

Tolle describes the whole episode on page 8 (highlighted in yellow) on the pdf here:
(http://ir.nmu.org.ua/bitstream/handl...pdf?sequence=1)

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Gem

The title is explained in this sentence:

If I cannot live with myself, there must be two of me: the ‘I’ and the ‘self’ that ‘I’ cannot live with.” “Maybe,” I thought, “only one of them is real”.

He claims there was an overnight transformation from the night before, which is described in the the quote in the OP.
The next morning he describes as:

I was awakened by the chirping of a bird outside the window. I had never heard such a sound before. My eyes were still closed, and I saw the image of a precious diamond. Yes, if a diamond could make a sound, this is what it would be like. I opened my eyes. The first light of dawn was filtering through the curtains. Without any thought, I felt, I knew, that there is infinitely more to light than we realize. That soft luminosity filtering through the curtains was love itself. Tears came into my eyes. I got up and walked around the room. I recognized the room, and yet I knew that I had never truly seen it before. Everything was fresh and pristine, as if it had just come into existence. I picked up things, a pencil, an empty bottle, marveling at the beauty and aliveness of it all. That day I walked around the city in utter amazement at the miracle of life on earth, as if I had just been born into this world.

Tolle describes the whole episode on page 8 (highlighted in yellow) on the pdf here:
(http://ir.nmu.org.ua/bitstream/handl...pdf?sequence=1)

I also have never read much of Tolle, though his quotes and excerpts from others often seemed on point, even if summed up or in high-level form.

What he describes here is what everyone who has experienced depression knows about. The "lifting" of the depressive state (perhaps having gone on for months or even years) is frequently if not always marked first not by the return of the feeling of well-being...which may be subtle or gradual...but by the re-colouring of your daily life, and of the world around you. Tastes, sounds, smells, sights...everything is experienced more deeply and once again you find yourself in the moment.
This re-colouring is always tied to a particular day when first you became aware you'd "re-emerged", and it does make an impression. The awareness itself is a spiritual moment and has an uplifting quality.

If this has underlain Tolle's spiritual experiences, then this makes him more interesting IMO. Thanks for sharing.

Peace & blessings,
7L

[naturesflow]

[quote]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

I also have never read much of Tolle, though his quotes and excerpts from others often seemed on point, even if summed up or in high-level form.

What he describes here is what everyone who has experienced depression knows about. The "lifting" of the depressive state (perhaps having gone on for months or even years) is frequently if not always marked first not by the return of the feeling of well-being...which may be subtle or gradual...but by the re-colouring of your daily life, and of the world around you. Tastes, sounds, smells, sights...everything is experienced more deeply and once again you find yourself in the moment.

Reading this make me wonder about being immersed in depression, everything is there regardless of how I or another might be feeling, everything is there to see regardless of what I or another is seeing. It would only take a view or a feeling opened to feel and see more. In some ways this can occur spontaneously, for any number of reasons. Being present with yourself and opening that way, (inward reflecting) externally reaching outward for something to create something new. We really do seek out our own process and unfolding even without full realization of those processors we are engaging in ...Life calls us in so many ways and life affects us in so many ways. So where we are relating makes no difference, it really just creates a life and process the way we are creating it. Which of course is important to the whole process. If we tip the balance, balance seeks itself in some form of balance that life has created it, which is, everyway of itself.

This re-colouring is always tied to a particular day when first you became aware you'd "re-emerged", and it does make an impression. The awareness itself is a spiritual moment and has an uplifting quality.

This particular day would be about the unfolding that cannot be by passed perhaps? Even as some might determine things as spontaneous, it is in fact what many might refer as *timing* or as I have heard others refer- divine timing. Which really is that your ready for more. TO see more, feel more, your unknown opening to reveal itself. In some ways speaking like this really does make this earth appear to be a kind of *university* of life and learning, through the whole creation of life as it is. We are all part of that process collectively and individually and everything in process in everyway it is in process will be created and manifested as it will by everything we are.

If this has underlain Tolle's spiritual experiences, then this makes him more interesting IMO. Thanks for sharing.

Peace & blessings,
7L

[7luminaries]

[quote=naturesflow]

Reading this make me wonder about being immersed in depression, everything is there regardless of how I or another might be feeling, everything is there to see regardless of what I or another is seeing. It would only take a view or a feeling opened to feel and see more. In some ways this can occur spontaneously, for any number of reasons. Being present with yourself and opening that way, (inward reflecting) externally reaching outward for something to create something new. We really do seek out our own process and unfolding even without full realization of those processors we are engaging in ...Life calls us in so many ways and life affects us in so many ways. So where we are relating makes no difference, it really just creates a life and process the way we are creating it. Which of course is important to the whole process. If we tip the balance, balance seeks itself in some form of balance that life has created it, which is, everyway of itself.

This particular day would be about the unfolding that cannot be by passed perhaps? Even as some might determine things as spontaneous, it is in fact what many might refer as *timing* or as I have heard others refer- divine timing. Which really is that your ready for more. TO see more, feel more, your unknown opening to reveal itself. In some ways speaking like this really does make this earth appear to be a kind of *university* of life and learning, through the whole creation of life as it is. We are all part of that process collectively and individually and everything in process in everyway it is in process will be created and manifested as it will by everything we are.

I think that's all true...I've certainly learnt alot about working with energy and/or light/colour to assess spiritual, emotional, and physical health and balance. It reveals the truth of the body on all levels, including the energy body, which connects and is connected to all aspects of your being. The body and what we call the soul or the higher self have a purity, innocence and truth that reveal everything, including where love is lacking and things are out of balance. Particularly in the realm of spirit, the purity and strength of what is, the simple truth of your being, is absolute bliss as so many have experienced.

I know that when you are in a state of depression, even mild depression, you don't realise it fully but the fullness of colour is dampened or drained off because depression takes you somewhat out of the now, in a very specific way. Just like shock, trauma, grief, or similar...all of which can cause forms of depression....you are (in energetic terms) cut off from your heart centre, or partially cut off. When you reach a tipping point in your healing, the colour (physical sensory awareness and being in the moment more fully) returns such that it makes a conscious impression.

Again, in energetic terms, depression means is some of your channels are blocked or damaged, both energetically (and ultimately physically) and are in need of healing. Often it is just as the psychologists have said...grief and anger are often buried deep. The spiritual, emotional, physical and psychological sources need to be owned and honoured. Loss, shock, injury, trauma or abuse, and so forth are real causes of depression and everything needs its own time to be processed.

Whilst in a state of depression, you yourself cannot do much but ride it out and stay open to the pain. Not fun but very effective at lessening the duration. Grounding and flowing are key. To say that you need to bolster your water and earth elements are an understatement. It is the only way. You need to consciously nurture &/or muster large and ever-replenishing amounts, hahaha! And they must work together...you must be simultaneously deeply rooted in the known of who you are (energy of earth) and yet flexible, interconnected, and open to the unknown of who you are (water energy), through grace and Spirit, to ride the waves.

If you, your personality, your constitution, your work or your daily life, &/or your society does not build or reinforce the elements of water and earth, then your middle chakras are vulnerable...particularly the heart chakra, which is vulnerable to depression and stress on every level, including the physical. To say that Western society does not honour the balance we all need in our lives is pretty obvious...and that's true for many societies.

But it is the simple honouring of Maslow's hierarchy (a modern parallel of the chakras without the energy and metaphysical stuff) that allows us to honour our need to nurture the body and the heart, to grieve, to deal with trauma, depression, and so forth, and thus to heal and seek other things like lifelong learning, peace of mind, equanimity, and various other individual and communal endeavours.

Otherwise depression could keep a person trapped in this state for far longer, ages even. If you have learnt to work with energy for healing, particularly heart healing, it is extremely helpful BTW. Supporting yourself positively and staying connected in ways that work for you, whenever possible, are also extremely helpful. So if we're here to learn, I've learnt some useful things (for me) in the realm of energy work and heart healing.

And apologies to Gem if I was a bit off topic...
As to the me and the me...IMO the one that is always seeking to be heard is the you at centre. Which some call the soul and others, the higher or core self (or Buddha nature). The one that has to learn to listen is the conscious mind, which is interwoven with our ego for both survival and individuation (and they too were interwoven).

Because the truths of the soul or embodied consciousness are often delivered in packages of core, deep-seated emotion (such as pain and intensity), they are often difficult to face or sort. The eternal truths (I am worthy of love or I need to honour the body and rest) may need to be parsed a bit from the pain (feeling abandoned or feeling wounded or exhausted) in order for us to process the eternal truths. But not too much...the body's truths are delivered in their wholeness, and that's how they are best received and sorted IMO, with all their colours, difficult as it may be.

Peace & blessings,
7L

[wolfgaze]

Originally Posted by vespa68

It definately was not in a day. There are many steps involved in letting your higher self take over but he could not explain all that in a book. I did like his book however because he did explain how things work but its not so easy as he says. He is talking about facing fears, facing oneslef to find the highest truth of who you are. This takes a long time and what he describes was only the first time it happened to him. But belive me he had much further to go along.

He does say (elsewhere) that what happened to him is uncommon... Not in the sense that it makes him special, just that people usually do not experience the shift in awareness in the manner that he did...

"For most people, spiritual awakening is a gradual process. Rarely does it happen all at once. When it does, though, it is usually brought about by intense suffering. That was certainly true in my case." ~ Eckhart Tolle

[Gem]

Originally Posted by wolfgaze

He does say (elsewhere) that what happened to him is uncommon... Not in the sense that it makes him special, just that people usually do not experience the shift in awareness in the manner that he did...

"For most people, spiritual awakening is a gradual process. Rarely does it happen all at once. When it does, though, it is usually brought about by intense suffering. That was certainly true in my case." ~ Eckhart Tolle

Tolles account of what happened to himself sounds like an apt description - but I don't believe the quote in blue is accurate.

[wolfgaze]

Originally Posted by Gem

Tolles account of what happened to himself sounds like an apt description - but I don't believe the quote in blue is accurate.

Can you elaborate on what you're thinking?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by wolfgaze

Can you elaborate on what you're thinking?

I did elaborate quite a bit in previous posts, but I'll just take another angle. It's what I'd call a 'fortunate accident'. Suddenly, 'it' is noticed. From my perspective, I can't see how it would be possible to 'progress' to that.

Under this, from our individual perspective, the living consciousness is 'you as you are'. It is not a future imaginary more progressed you. You are not imaginary. You only exist at the moment, just as you are. One can try to exist in the future, or the past - impossible. Consciousness is here because you are here. This is obviously the case.