Yale Scientist abanding Darwin's Evolution

[Moondance]

Originally Posted by Altair

Moondance, remember I talk(ed) about life evolving due to randomness and changes in environment that are observed to be natural phenomenon. I don't mention how life began. And this may be controversial but I very much doubt that it even began at all. We tend to be fixated on beginnings and ends which may impact how we start approaching questions.



You're already committed the same faulty reasoning as creationists. It's subtle. You seem to suggest life must have design and purpose, otherwise there couldn't be an Einstein or a Shakespeare. Well it very well can. Life's complexity and human ingenuity are explainable without the imaginations of the 'primitive mind', as you put it. This 'primitive mind' that seeks to explain phenomena through creationism and divine intervention relies on emotion and human projection.

Hi Altair

Firstly, I have never mentioned purpose in any of my posts - it’s not something that I’ve expressed a view on. As for design, I never actually use that word - I don’t mind it, but it is strongly associated with a designer. I do use words like intelligence and creativity - but I use them in a non-anthropomorphic sense. Reality, Existence, the Cosmos, Nature clearly display those qualities.

My mention of Einstein, Shakespeare (and beyond - because it is eminently possible that there are far more astounding examples elsewhere in the universe - not to overlook everyday ‘miracles’ such as DNA, reproduction, consciousness…) is to illustrate that the contrivance of starting with formless hydrogen (I could have started with the Big Bang or even suggested a prior-ness to that - but formless hydrogen is at least tangible) and progressing towards towers of ingenuity, creativity and intelligence… is quite a breathtakingly astonishing occurrence. That there are (acknowledged) lawful algorithms involved makes it no less astonishing.

No divine intervention implied - a careful read of my post should make that clear. Yes, human projection is an issue here for both the religious and the reductive materialist. And this gets to the point of my post. It’s not a binary choice between anthropomorphic designer and chaos pulling itself up by the bootstraps (by whatever mechanism.) Both have gaping explanatory gaps.

Originally Posted by Moondance

That a anthropomorphic god or divine entity designed and created the universe and all that exists is (for me) just too preposterous for words - the concept just doesn't add up at any level and is plainly the product of the limited imagination of the evolved mammal that we are (that we tend to picture God as another somewhat superior mammal is in itself hilarious.)

Even Max Planck said that we must assume an intelligence behind the Universe, quantum theory and collapsing of the wave function. And, of course, the Bible's God creating the heavens and the earth. Even Donald Trump's hairdo is part of a Fibonacci Spiral and not to mention you seeing the Golden Mean ratio every time you look in the mirror.

Originally Posted by Moondance

That the universe and the world and life and consciousness - from formless hydrogen… to Einstein, Shakespeare and beyond - just came about through a series of accidents - and that the algorithms that lawfully determine those accidents themselves came about through a series of accidents - and that the arising of this astounding capacity for accidental creation just appeared ex nihilo... seems just as preposterous.

Matter is emergent of consciousness as science and religion will tell you, so consciousness being emergent of matter - "from formless hydrogen" - is backwards. There are sixteen constants in the Universe and a small change to any of them would end Life as we know it. Like gravity, for instance, a little less and matter wouldn't coalesce or a little more and matter would be too superheavy. As for the Big Bang, all that matter having come from nowhere and the sudden and accidental explosion being random chance is pushing preposterous somewhat.

Originally Posted by Moondance

Of course this doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be wary of magical, internally inconsistent and purely faith based ideas. Intelligent inquiry and forensic honesty are a prerequisite for any sort of genuine insight into our condition.

There's evidence for creationism and there's any amount of evidence for an intelligence (God/Creator/Universe) behind everything, and the only real issue is the reasons anyone believes it's one or the other. Perhaps if the binary thinking (creationism vs evolution) could be put to one side perhaps we could perceive nurtured nature.

[quote=7luminaries]Hey there GS...well I think we've all been at the point where we're a bit exhausted at times by amoral utilitarianism of our age. It's not a sustainable ethos in the long run...either humanity moves past it or we'll be left in the dust. But too much of the world is still exploring (or has holed up in) misalignment. I was talking w/Busby on the Buddhism Questions/Karma thread and I refer to this as spiritual infancy (exploring misalignment) and late spiritual infancy (the truculent ones).

As I said to Daz at some point recently, it sux to be the sober one at the party...as really, that could be a bit dull. or in this case, more the grade schooler or adolescent who's stuck looking after the mass of 2-yr olds beating on one another and stealing their toys But there you go...there's nothing for it, hahaha. If left to their own devices, without oversight, hand-holding, hugs & bandaids, and proper discipline, it would be last (baby) man standing. Problem is, if you were to give a 2 yr old a loaded gun, everyone would be dead in short order, certainly upon the next tantrum thrown. So...discipline and vigilance and clear (often proscriptive) guidance is a mercy and a great act of love, for all they thrash and rage and cry till naptime.[/quopte]Hey there 7L


There's a difference between feeling exhausted by the world and feeling as though the Soul has had enough, and I know that the Soul doesn't technically feel that way but that's how it translates. I walk in 'two worlds' and while I don't always realise what's going on in Spirit, I know deep down inside when things are happening. Things are happening, it 'feels' as though it's the end of a cycle and that's what I've been told by Spirit. I'm sticking to that because Spirit as a Guide isn't a bad thing.


We have to move on and let the younger ones make their own mistakes, because that's the only way they're going to learn. Tell them they're going to screw up, let them screw up and be there for them anyway.

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Yup -- see my prior Toddlers are a very narcissistic and selfish lot...demanding, cranky, and prone to fits and tantrums when they don't get their way on the spot.I won't deny many are still actively exploring misalignment...and even actively resisting their own rising awareness and inner calls to right-alignment and balance.

Sometimes the best way to understand right-alignment is to understand misalignment, but then misalignment and tantrums might be right for them. Very often all they're doing is following their basic instincts until they no onger serve and the tantrums stop.

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Still, I would say that whilst for many, perhaps nothing will change markedly in this lifetime but that's not to say something won't change to the good in some future lifetime. It can and does happen, and perhaps when we're least expecting it.

To evolve, we have to take ownership individually and communally. Then we have to make our traits work for us as strengths. For example, project the ID from the supervision of our higher consciousness and let it scout the way with a sense of sustainability and survival. Doing this for about a half-second allows us to realise that our current mainstream lifeways in the modern world are extremely unsustainable and, as you discuss, they take us out of our centre and actually disable us. Preventing many from developing the capacity to attain the fullness of their humanity.

I know it's often brutally discouraging because unlike our actual kids, growth & progress may seem laborious or almost nonexistent...but it's a mix of parenting and early childhood supervision. The "older kids" need to socialise regularly to avoid burnout and to discuss tactics Maybe to take a break. But to abandon ship entirely is something you'll have to negotiate over the aeons, which you're less and less likely to do as you go. And I suspect eventually it all looks differently anyway, as you say. Will be interesting to see, eh? Hi to Mrs G. & hope all is well!

Peace & blessings
7L

Both society and Spirituality are entropic systems and as such are doomed to chaos, that is the nature of things I'm afraid. Lord of the Flies is simply humans following their nature - monkeys don't have laws and like it or not we still have vestiges of monkey-minds buried deep in out subconscious that drives us. Perhaps that will come sooner than most would want as climate change forces the atmosphere to collapse into something far less conducive to human existence. Maybe we won't have to wait for those aeons after all if the doom-sayers are correct. Maybe we won't abandon ship, maybe the ship will come apart around our ears.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Hey there 7L

There's a difference between feeling exhausted by the world and feeling as though the Soul has had enough, and I know that the Soul doesn't technically feel that way but that's how it translates.

Hey there GS, Yes I don't feel deeply exhausted physically, emotionally, or spiritually either most times and that's why I was trying to get at whether it's a soul thing. Mentally though at times it's a big "eyeroll", hahaha After all, isn't "quid pro quo" the essence of amoral utilitarianism in its most civilized form? That's the pinnacle -- it can aspire to nothing beyond that, whilst there are certainly far worse ways to additionally be amoral and utilitarian.

Thus I have to remind my son gently that what he sees all round is neither humanity at core, nor humanity as it ever was, nor humanity as will be...it is simply a phase in our very early childhood as a species. If as you say we make it that far, LOL...but if we all take ownership and take our own bits in hand, then perhaps we shall ;)

I walk in 'two worlds' and while I don't always realise what's going on in Spirit, I know deep down inside when things are happening. Things are happening, it 'feels' as though it's the end of a cycle and that's what I've been told by Spirit. I'm sticking to that because Spirit as a Guide isn't a bad thing.

We have to move on and let the younger ones make their own mistakes, because that's the only way they're going to learn. Tell them they're going to screw up, let them screw up and be there for them anyway.

I teeheehee'd here b/c we aren't grown up or finished yet either as souls...so where will ye all go then if you're done round here? Suppose you'll find out, then. So long as it's not contemplating the wormwood then it's all good no doubt. Wherever you go, there you are, as they say.

Sometimes the best way to understand right-alignment is to understand misalignment, but then misalignment and tantrums might be right for them. Very often all they're doing is following their basic instincts until they no onger serve and the tantrums stop.

I think they're following a lot of very base instincts, for certain, ones that societies and cultures since the dawn of time have tried to discipline and channel variously. Bereft of these guidelines and restraints, they're like madmen who've been given the keys to their own cell and now they're wandering the streets "at large" telling one another they'll bloody well say what's "normal", "ok", and even "good and right" now Just mind your centre per usual and nod politely right on by, hahaha!

Both society and Spirituality are entropic systems and as such are doomed to chaos, that is the nature of things I'm afraid. Lord of the Flies is simply humans following their nature - monkeys don't have laws and like it or not we still have vestiges of monkey-minds buried deep in out subconscious that drives us. Perhaps that will come sooner than most would want as climate change forces the atmosphere to collapse into something far less conducive to human existence. Maybe we won't have to wait for those aeons after all if the doom-sayers are correct. Maybe we won't abandon ship, maybe the ship will come apart around our ears.

LOL...hahaha...don't jump ship just yet, not whilst you're still steering it and you can see and feel to navigate properly. Many of those on board are blind, deaf, and dumb due to the rot of amoral utilitarianism on the soul.

How will those folks manage to find solid ground? They're a bit like soft mushy larval creatures who don't yet have solid boundaries or a firm awareness. They have to firm up a bit and get some definition and clarity before they can grasp the levers, much less navigate properly. Funny I generally have to go back to my grandparents' (WWII) generation to find a broadly distributed, well-developed sense of discipline, dignity, and honour accorded to others, simply for their basic humanity...and most of them are gone now.

Perhaps most of those around us won't ever develop or grow properly, toward right alignment, not this go-round...and it'll be the their children or their grandkids who pragmatically clean up much of the mess of humanity we've become, LOL. Along with the "odd men out" (like us, so odd men and odd women both hahaha) who are there to lend a hand. My kid's generation still need us...they are not grown yet and it's a mess they're coming into, i.e. amoral utilitarianism writ large and pervading every aspect and level of society. Luckily, not all but many kids my son's age appear just loads more socially and morally aware than many folks my age or my folks' age (they came of age in the 60s & 70s) -- and I can and do speak with him regularly, freely, and cogently about many of the social, political, and environmental issues of our day.

The key thing IMO is doing our part to be part of the solution and neither part of the problem nor the apathetic majority. Whilst & for however long we're here...and I've still got a ways to go most likely, LOL. It's funny...I died quite young in every other life, mostly under 30 or not too far past, and I have really been looking forward to & thus far enjoying getting older finally!!! So after all this, I hope humanity can make it, as I have to say, getting well past 35 or so & finally getting older is really pretty darn sweet, full of wonder & awe just like anything else. And everyone should have the opportunity to experience it ;)

Peace & blessings
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Moondance

Hi Altair

Firstly, I have never mentioned purpose in any of my posts - it’s not something that I’ve expressed a view on. As for design, I never actually use that word - I don’t mind it, but it is strongly associated with a designer. I do use words like intelligence and creativity - but I use them in a non-anthropomorphic sense. Reality, Existence, the Cosmos, Nature clearly display those qualities.

My mention of Einstein, Shakespeare (and beyond - because it is eminently possible that there are far more astounding examples elsewhere in the universe - not to overlook everyday ‘miracles’ such as DNA, reproduction, consciousness…) is to illustrate that the contrivance of starting with formless hydrogen (I could have started with the Big Bang or even suggested a prior-ness to that - but formless hydrogen is at least tangible) and progressing towards towers of ingenuity, creativity and intelligence… is quite a breathtakingly astonishing occurrence. That there are (acknowledged) lawful algorithms involved makes it no less astonishing.

No divine intervention implied - a careful read of my post should make that clear. Yes, human projection is an issue here for both the religious and the reductive materialist. And this gets to the point of my post. It’s not a binary choice between anthropomorphic designer and chaos pulling itself up by the bootstraps (by whatever mechanism.) Both have gaping explanatory gaps.

Moondance, agreed -- I was following earlier and reading and thinking exactly these points. And under the current paradigms, we are as a society a bit blind to our blindness with regard to these false dualisms which we posit as the only options. And yes, it's both the ultra-religious and the hard-core material reductionists who are setting the context for dialogue, which suits them but which many of the rest of us find too restrictive or presumptive. Thanks for making these points properly

Peace & blessings
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Even Max Planck said that we must assume an intelligence behind the Universe, quantum theory and collapsing of the wave function. And, of course, the Bible's God creating the heavens and the earth. Even Donald Trump's hairdo is part of a Fibonacci Spiral and not to mention you seeing the Golden Mean ratio every time you look in the mirror.

Hey there GS. Planck, Einstein, and many others said the same, as the mind-boggling nature of our reality was revealed to them. You lost me at Trump's fibonnaci merengue-pie curly-que Just kidding, totally makes sense -- it's a warning flare, right?

Matter is emergent of consciousness as science and religion will tell you, so consciousness being emergent of matter - "from formless hydrogen" - is backwards. There are sixteen constants in the Universe and a small change to any of them would end Life as we know it. Like gravity, for instance, a little less and matter wouldn't coalesce or a little more and matter would be too superheavy. As for the Big Bang, all that matter having come from nowhere and the sudden and accidental explosion being random chance is pushing preposterous somewhat.

Agreed. Consciousness is boundless and persistent in nature, whilst the material realm is emergent in each moment and thus is changeable and transitory in nature. Clearly, one precedes, is foundational to, and gives rise to the other.

Also, regarding the emergence and support of material existence (the "cosmological constant" of dark energy/matter, all the other finely-tuned constants you note which support the emergence and existence of the material universe and life as we know it, etc)...just fascinating, agreed. The study of physics, quantum physics and cosmology are so fascinating in revealing the amazing mysteries of existence, I cannot say enough.

There's evidence for creationism and there's any amount of evidence for an intelligence (God/Creator/Universe) behind everything, and the only real issue is the reasons anyone believes it's one or the other. Perhaps if the binary thinking (creationism vs evolution) could be put to one side perhaps we could perceive nurtured nature.

Well said...Like nearly all great truths, it will require us to stretch and grasp the seemingly paradoxical "both/and" nature of reality.

Peace & blessings
7L

[davidsun]

Great post 7L. Seconding your saying:

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

The key thing IMO is doing our part to be part of the solution and neither part of the problem nor the apathetic majority. Whilst & for however long we're here...

From by book:

"In the past, because we [referencing humanity at large] were generally so juvenile, those who were in a position to be parental, for the most part, merely attempted to control and channel selfishness to prevent it from becoming a plague. In addition to using approval and censure as means of motivation, religious leaders and teachers held out promises of future rewards (such as the surcease of pain, escape from the yoke of earthly toil, and attainment of paradises of various sorts) to induce people to be helpful. And they used threats of future punishment and suffering (such as ‘bad’ karma, and hellish torments of many kinds) to deter those who weren’t positively disposed from being callous and negligent. Their strategy was materially seconded by potentates and governing agents who instituted and administered systems of practical reinforcement and impedance, proportionately granting social status and privi*lege for various kinds and degrees of con*structive behavior and imposing a graded set of penalties for acts that were destructive.

However, as those involved with the bringing up of children have firsthand opportunity to learn, promises and threats as well as bribes and sanctions are useless in many situations, particularly with certain kinds of personalities. Furthermore, employed beyond a certain point, such measures can be quite counterproductive. They only affect those who are timid and dependent in the first place, not anyone either bold or desperate. And they only condition them to behave like lower animals at that—for what they can thereby personally get or avoid. So, though they may act well in some ways, they remain or even become more selfish at heart. Besides requiring an inordinate amount of energy to equitably implement and being quite fallible at that, since they focus attention on what might be personally gained or lost, policies based on such principles often serve to retard and prevent what we most need now—the development of true conscience and genuine altruistic spirit.

To help humanity move higher on Life’s evolutionary ladder, those of us who are well-intentioned must, individually and collectively, bring ourselves and those we interact with ‘up’ out of the morass of selfishness which is basically just a function of our species’ immaturity. To be successful in such venture, we must, in whatever context we find ourselves, learn to recognize and do what is most constructive—not for personal benefit but for really good reason, which is that it enhances the flow of Creativity and improves the quality of experience and expression of Life Itself.

“Behold, the kingdom of God is within you!” Let your own light shine. Your position in Life is unique. You will shortchange Creativity if you thoughtlessly follow someone else’s footsteps; also if you spinelessly let others dictate what you think, do, say or feel.

Proceed in good conscience. Earnest intent is all you really need to find your way. As has been said: Let us therefore, as many as be perfect [meaning mature], be thus minded; and, if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God [i.e., Intelligence] shall reveal even this unto you.'

So be it."

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by DavidSun

...policies based [purely or primarily] on such principles [i.e., of self-interest] often serve to retard and prevent what we most need now—the development of true conscience and genuine altruistic spirit.

To help humanity move higher on Life’s evolutionary ladder, those of us who are well-intentioned must, individually and collectively, bring ourselves and those we interact with ‘up’ out of the morass of selfishness which is basically just a function of our species’ immaturity. To be successful in such venture, we must, in whatever context we find ourselves, learn to recognize and do what is most constructive—not for personal benefit but for really good reason, which is that it enhances the flow of Creativity and improves the quality of experience and expression of Life Itself.

“Behold, the kingdom of God is within you!” Let your own light shine. Your position in Life is unique. You will shortchange Creativity if you thoughtlessly follow someone else’s footsteps; also if you spinelessly let others dictate what you think, do, say or feel.

Proceed in good conscience. Earnest intent is all you really need to find your way. As has been said: Let us therefore, as many as be perfect [meaning mature], be thus minded; and, if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God [i.e., Intelligence] shall reveal even this unto you.'

So be it."

DavidSun, I added [just a few words] to clarify. I agree that this general message or sentiment is one that needs to be grasped and taken to heart by all.

It is not just for the trailblazers. It is, but equally IMO we are meant to understand that we are all trailblazers, each in our own way, so long as we continually seek and aspire to our highest truth and our highest good as individuals, alongside supporting the highest truth &good of others on their journeys. IOW, we are meant to be and do authentic love for ourselves and for one another. We are meant to will and actively support our own highest good in all we do and say, in all our being and doing. And equally, we are meant to will and actively support the highest good of others and of all that is.

In order to be and do authentic love for ourselves and for one another, and for all that is...we must be able to do the following:

1) take conscious ownership: own our words and deeds; own that we can and do make choices & take decisions regarding how we (will) live our lives)

Once we acknowledge our own agency, then limitless spiritual evolution and growth is possible.
In order to grow, we must be able to manifest change at all levels.
Simply put, this means once we have accepted conscious ownership of our journeys, we must be able to do 3 basic things:

2) discern right-aligned from misaligned
3) choose to freely seek (to be and do) what is right-aligned
4) choose to freely turn from what is misaligned

When we come to #4, we have reached ground zero at centre, and from here, deeper transformation begins to occur.
However we became sentient and self-aware, here we are and experiencing this transformation is our spiritual birthright.

At #4, we are able to freely and open own that we have engaged in misalignment individually and collectively -- and as social beings, it is nearly always at the direction of our society and its often fundamentally misaligned, imbalanced social norms and cultural dictates. Which (society, that is) BTW is no longer even seeking to constrain the worst impulses but rather is egregiously and openly underwriting them, in pursuit of profits, social control, and spiritual slavery. Human society has lost its way over the last half century, acc'd to history, and has turned openly toward misalignment. Thus, many individuals have lost their way as well and are unable to discern right from wrong, no matter how egregious. Like in times of recent genocides, like Rwanda or Serbia, etc. where murdering and raping your neighbours of many years became normative and folks said their reasons were because "everyone was doing it" -- any behavior no matter how misaligned can be socially designated as acceptable under the "right circumstances", like civil war.

Regardless of the biological origins, modern humanity came into being collectively and in society. And it is in individual and collective care and nurturing of our societies and the needs of their members -- that we will ultimately evolve and move forward both as individuals and also as a collective, as a species. There is much in our society that is deeply misaligned and deeply broken, perhaps more now than ever, in addition to the persistence of deep, pervasive historic imbalances as yet not well addressed.

Humanity is facing a species-level challenge as we begin to exit spiritual infancy and very early childhood. That challenge involves expanding what most know as "agape" or, authentic love (lovingkindness and equanimity) from beyond just the narrow confines of certain relationships like parent/child or beloved friend/teacher/student and and carrying authentic love outward as the foundation for ALL human relationships -- INCLUDING those of partners and strangers, where agape or authentic love has historically been excluded. The history of the Hebrew bible is all about the overriding repetition of the commandment to love the stranger and the marginalised (the widow, the orphan, the ill and outcast, etc), because it is in caring for its weakest and most vulnerable that the character & values of a society AND its individual members are determined. Jesus reiterated this message, as have other great spiritual guides and messengers.

This is the real story of our human evolution, IMO. The evolution of the human spirit, manifest on the ground, day-to-day, in our being and doing with one another. We've been through 2 or 3 astrological ages since receiving this message. It is intellectually accepted by most of humanity and many of its societies -- at least in theory -- but it has not yet permeated the heart and soul of most individuals -- and thus it is not broadly manifest in most societies, either -- even in the wealthiest countries. Ultimately, and sooner than we realise, we must all hang together or as Ben Franklin said, we will all hang separately. Acceptance of this truth provides a great catalyst and opportunity for both our material and spiritual evolution, and likewise we ignore this truth at great peril to ourselves, to one another, and to our collective humanity.

Peace & blessings
7L

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Regardless of the biological origins, modern humanity came into being collectively and in society. And it is in individual and collective care and nurturing of our societies and the needs of their members -- that we will ultimately evolve and move forward both as individuals and also as a collective, as a species. There is much in our society that is deeply misaligned and deeply broken, perhaps more now than ever, in addition to the persistence of deep, pervasive historic imbalances as yet not well addressed.

Humanity is facing a species-level challenge as we begin to exit spiritual infancy and very early childhood. That challenge involves expanding what most know as "agape" or, authentic love (lovingkindness and equanimity) from beyond just the narrow confines of certain relationships like parent/child or beloved friend/teacher/student and [B

and carrying authentic love outward as the foundation for ALL human relationships -- INCLUDING those of partners and strangers, where agape or authentic love has historically been excluded[/b]. The history of the Hebrew bible is all about the overriding repetition of the commandment to love the stranger and the marginalised (the widow, the orphan, the ill and outcast, etc), because it is in caring for its weakest and most vulnerable that the character & values of a society AND its individual members are determined. Jesus reiterated this message, as have other great spiritual guides and messengers.

This is the real story of our human evolution, IMO. The evolution of the human spirit, manifest on the ground, day-to-day, in our being and doing with one another. We've been through 2 or 3 astrological ages since receiving this message. It is intellectually accepted by most of humanity and many of its societies -- at least in theory -- but it has not yet permeated the heart and soul of most individuals -- and thus it is not broadly manifest in most societies, either -- even in the wealthiest countries. Ultimately, and sooner than we realise, we must all hang together or as Ben Franklin said, we will all hang separately. Acceptance of this truth provides a great catalyst and opportunity for both our material and spiritual evolution, and likewise we ignore this truth at great peril to ourselves, to one another, and to our collective humanity.

7luminaries,

What I really appreciate about the nature of all your postings is your adherence to a consistent message. You articulate both the value and necessity of 'communion'....i.e. that which is with the aim of unity, union and the becoming of one. You recognize the primacy of love as being the key to any spiritual endeavor. As we all should realize love is without existence without both one who loves and one who is loved. I cringe somewhat when spiritual seekers seemingly isolate themselves from others and seem to display complete focus on their personal quests. It is an odd thing but personally I believe our greatest advancements come more as a result of focusing on others first and it is then that our own goals can be realized. Perhaps this is a virtual understanding of the gospel's admonition "seek ye first the kingdom of God and all else will be added to you". The kingdom of God must surely, first and foremost, be the kingdom of love. Our mission here on earth should consist of building bridges to others so that genuine communion can evolve and grow. To use an old adage...."It is the rising tide that lifts all boats".

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

DavidSun, I added [just a few words] to clarify. I agree that this general message or sentiment is one that needs to be grasped and taken to heart by all.

I appreciate and groove with your additions, 7L.

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Humanity is facing a species-level challenge as we begin to exit spiritual infancy and very early childhood. That challenge involves expanding what most know as "agape" or, authentic love (lovingkindness and equanimity) from beyond just the narrow confines of certain relationships like parent/child or beloved friend/teacher/student and and carrying authentic love outward as the foundation for ALL human relationships -- INCLUDING those of partners and strangers, where agape or authentic love has historically been excluded. The history of the Hebrew bible is all about the overriding repetition of the commandment to love the stranger and the marginalised (the widow, the orphan, the ill and outcast, etc), because it is in caring for its weakest and most vulnerable that the character & values of a society AND its individual members are determined. Jesus reiterated this message, as have other great spiritual guides and messengers.

This is the real story of our human evolution, IMO. The evolution of the human spirit, manifest on the ground, day-to-day, in our being and doing with one another. We've been through 2 or 3 astrological ages since receiving this message. It is intellectually accepted by most of humanity and many of its societies -- at least in theory -- but it has not yet permeated the heart and soul of most individuals -- and thus it is not broadly manifest in most societies, either -- even in the wealthiest countries. Ultimately, and sooner than we realise, we must all hang together or as Ben Franklin said, we will all hang separately. Acceptance of this truth provides a great catalyst and opportunity for both our material and spiritual evolution, and likewise we ignore this truth at great peril to ourselves, to one another, and to our collective humanity.

The issue involved is quite a but more complicated than you 'diagnose', IMO, 7L. 'Agape' (including what is often thought of Jesus' main teaching: a la "Love your 'neighbor' as yourself.") will only lead to/result in peeps 'evolving' up to a point, if all we 'agape' with is other humans, I think. What I am referencing is analogous to the difference between what are generally thought of as 'Ecological Principles' and what is referenced by the phrase as 'Deep Ecology', IOW.

From my book:

"There are those who think that our troubles are only burgeoning because of the many who have not given ‘according to ability’ and the many who have not received ‘according to need’. Granted, though what some individuals and groups have done along these lines is truly laudable, humanity as a whole is still far from being a functionally integrated ‘body’ in this sense. However, our situation is getting worse not only despite but, as I will point out, in many ways because of the very improvements we have made in this regard. Therefore, just working harder or more effectively to see to it that there is more [equitable] giving ‘according to ability’ and receiving ‘according to need’ of the most currently sought after kinds of ‘goods’ and ‘services’ will just add impetus to what is, as I will also point out, an already out of control wave of destruction.

The worsening I speak of does not stem from our not having given or received ‘enough’. Rather, it is the result of our not having given and received what is truly beneficial. For the most part, we have given and received much too impetuously, ignoring the fact that giving and receiving aren’t necessarily good. Not only don’t they bring about positive consequences in and of themselves, giving and receiving can be quite instrumental in bringing about negative ones. Besides squandering a great deal of what’s been available to us, the latter possibility is what we’ve actualized on a grand scale. Huge numbers of us are atrophying and psychospiritual rot is spreading in spite of the fact that human productivity and sharing are at an all time high, because, like immature children would if left to their own devices in a cornucopian candy factory, we have indulged in an unwholesome orgy of instinct-gratifying dispensation and consumption.

Grossly inequitable practices in this regard, such that some are bloated while others pine, certainly complicate and exacerbate the maladies we therefore suffer. However, such practices are really just derivative consequences themselves. The root of our present distress is why and what we’ve sought to give and receive in the first place, in other words, our underlying motivation.

Because most would-be health, education and welfare providers have concentrated on giving, and most would‑be health, education and welfare seekers have concentrated on receiving, what increases or provides for the increase of instinctual pleasure and gratification, instead of augmenting Creativity they have basically just helped increase the number of human organs and amount of human creature-security, creature-comfort, creature-pleasure, and creature-aggrandizement on the planet. And this but temporarily, because the exponentially increasing wave of instinctual activity they have thereby engendered now runs grossly amuck—our biological and cultural ecosystem has, as a result of their choices, been cannibalized and polluted to the point where Life on earth is inexorably, day-by-day becoming an ever more competitive, narrow self-interest dominated, desperation tinged, criminally exploited and chaotic scramble for instinctual perks in ever more barren and septic environs for a greater and greater proportion of those present.

What lies ahead is truly horrendous. Because we have, to such a great extent, both been seduced by and pandered to the urges of instinct, at least as many people will die from starvation, sickness, negligence or violence, inflicted either by fellow species members or Nature at large, in the next century as were alive at the beginning of this one. And that’s only the manifest tip of the iceberg. Ravaging angst will concomitantly wreak much more pernicious havoc in the realm of the soul."

Actually, I think the proportion(s) of 'mortality' and 'suffering' will be much greater that even that! That was what I was thinking/projecting at the turn of the century, when the book I mention was in the process of being completed.