Anger can be a Gift

Originally Posted by running

there can be no reaction without a person. there is no person without an identity. there is no identity without an ego.

If only more of those who perceive themselves as 'Spirit on a human Journey' understood that.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by running

there can be no reaction without a person. there is no person without an identity. there is no identity without an ego.

Indeed. Ego is basically a ball of reactions. We think stuff that happens happens to me, so whatever happens is met with a reaction from 'me'. Like there is some obstacle and 'I don't like it' reaction, so the volition is incited. That volition drives ego from the previous moment to the next in the kammic cycle. For this to continue we have to react (which is retrospective), so that volition is incited (which is futuristic), and thus completely overlook reality this moment.

In the momentary awareness, the obstacle is there, but there is no reaction. No like it, don't like it, or any other secondary notion that is dreamed up after the actual fact. There is the observation of change and that's just how it is.

The obstacle is something that isn't allowed to change in its own way, so there is already some adverse, resistive reactivity present in the block. To cease is to 'just observe', which means to be content with it 'as it is'. When we have dislike toward the feeling (which is what the obstacle is) we also desire it be gone, AKA we desire a feeling other than the one we are actually aware of.

When that reaction occurs, volition is already incited, ego is perpetuated, and we believe the stuff that happened happened to 'me' - that the same 'me' has continued in time. Then we say more stories like we chose the thing we wanted and got it via anger, and ego retains its position as oneself.

[Gem]

On the other hand, there is also anger just seething in there, a rage from long ago which wasn't accepted, some sort of traumatic experience beyond the individual's ability to cope with and survive. Many things are pushed out of sight so we can continue day to day because we need to survive. That's like a natural survival mechanism, but there has to come a time when we are better able to cope with it and it can surface into conscious awareness without eliciting any more reactions. Usually the old trauma peeks into conscious awareness but we immediately react adversely and move to a desired distraction, so we never really become fully conscious of it, especially since being aware as it comes through is unpleasant, and we are adverse to unpleasant as we desire pleasure. At some stage we really have to stop completely, cease running from unpleasant and chasing pleasure, and just be 'as we are' with experience 'as it is'. This lets change run as nature has it, and there is no me working to resist one thing and make something else happen, and if change can happen just as it is wont to do ... everything is resolved.

That isn't easy because we are conditioned to react to everything. Even just an itch makes our mind get really wild. People say they can't meditate unless they feel comfortable, but they mean they have reactions to discomfort that disturbs their peace of mind. The feelings, you see. The hard dense feeling of a block is disliked and light free flow is wanted, and again the mind is torn between aversion and desire as ego erupts with the volition to make it 'as I want it to be'. Most of us are in a perpetual state of motion, avoiding one feeling and chasing another feeling, and it's a tightly wound up ball of reactions that do not cease. But then you just stop and it all starts to unwind. Not because you do something about it - but because you stop winding.

[lomax]

These are in depth comments.I wonder where you find all these infos guys.For me,i had managed to drive my anger to work for me sometimes,and i plan to do it again.Maybe when an emotion gets out fo control,the monkey-chatter mind ceases.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Gem

On the other hand, there is also anger just seething in there, a rage from long ago which wasn't accepted, some sort of traumatic experience beyond the individual's ability to cope with and survive. Many things are pushed out of sight so we can continue day to day because we need to survive. That's like a natural survival mechanism, but there has to come a time when we are better able to cope with it and it can surface into conscious awareness without eliciting any more reactions. ...

Yes, so much applies and can be true but of course it'll be said I don't mean this kind of anger and so this doesn't apply.

It is like the thought of using evil for good saying I can control it. Will anger forever be in everything we do. As far as I know people can still act without anger, the best way to be motivated is the question. The word was probably not the best one to use but I to have gone through the same experience where I saw some outcome (anger based) and saw results. But still we are using anger against anger. Just be aware of this.

Still I think we are looking at possibility some immediate result (outcome) we saw seeing anger creates cause and effect and this can't be denied. When someone does something then I act out of anger and the question is what will I do out of it. The fact I need to be motivated means I must wait for anger. I do not act until it arises and it may become a (easy) pattern. I like it and if I do it once I will do it again. Anger then becomes more a weapon of good intentions. And I am aware of only the anger I can control. We put this power in the hands of the ego. We feel there it is good. Once anger is turned on it must be turned off. Anger is usually associated with such emotions as fear or hate but one can be loved because it feeds happiness. We may feel we can control it and say see the results. I would say if one has clarity anger is not needed to do.

Still the intention is I don't mean this and so it does not apply. I understand what the OP means and as far as I see we all are saying the same thing. We think we are disagreeing with each other, but we are not. Not sure any would agree with this. But one must be cautious putting anger on a pedestal. One does not need to "wait" for anger to be motivated. To wait until one is angry is not a good thing.

[Matty]

Originally Posted by lemex

But one must be cautious putting anger on a pedestal. One does not need to "wait" for anger to be motivated.

Anger is already and has been for a long time on a pedestal. A pedestal influenced by negative reinforced behavior (lets call it what it is) of evil intentions. If people are to scared to bring up or talk about or try to break the already existing pedestal. Then those who hold onto anger and turns to this pedestal. Will never learn how to handle anger.
It's not about getting rid of anger or covering it up or denying it exist.
It's about not letting anger own you in destructive ways, just like any natural emotion. Anger has been cause of many if not all wars, even though so many blame religion. What if someone taught the people who started the war. How to handle the anger in a non destructive way. The most common idea that "men" are taught to be is to accept anger. Everything else is just weakness don't show emotions. Must watch sports so on and so on. Women are also being taught to harvest anger in destructive ways.
All emotions is a gift to feel is a gift to live is a gift.
To deny a emotion is just a way to harvest evil intention's. Not even anger is an exception, it is one of the most important ones not to harvest or build up.
The more we let anger build up the higher the pedestal will be. So many don't know how to let go of anger constructively or properly. Instead they lash out and take it out on everyone else. Especially themselves, in the end most of the time people with anger in their hearts. Hurt themselves more than others, cause there anger will destroy everything in their lives. They will know nothing but anger and lose

Anger is on such a pedestal that people return anger with anger, it becomes a reinforced acceptable way. If you don't obey this unwritten law, your just considered sensitive or weak or a sucker. Since when did careing become an anti-normal behavior for society, as if being sensitive is a bad thing.
Usually the people , which is majority, who use and call people sensitive are just angry even more because that person isn't full of resenting anger. Instead usually the "sensitive" one is angry that you believe you have to be angry in such a hateful way.
Normally people don't want to admit they are wrong or need's to better themselves. It's easier to lash out and project onto others. Than to accept fault in ourselves. This is how anger's pedestal keep's getting higher. Denial only knocks the ladder down .

I have this person who I converse with at times. Full of anger, she tries to deny it and even built up a false sense of self in process to reinforce the anger. Just the other day she stopped by we started talking one topic lead to another. But for the first time she admitted that something what I was saying was making her angry not because what I said was hateful. Instead she took it in anger instead of the peace I was offering. That it was her issue to deal with, that the typical projection she does didn't work. By the time she left, she said one day I'm going to punch you in the nose. We both kinda chuckled at the remark. Which to me is a good thing in a way ,when she does so in this way.
I see anger in people all the time. I also try to help those dealing with anger when I am able to do so. One more short example, one day she mentioned she was sensitive when she was a child. I was letting her vent for good hour or so, my 1st and only remark was. Wait, you said was sensitive. She got extremely furious and reinforced the conviction of the difference between sensitive child and an adult....which in reality it just turned into resentment and anger directed towards others with a smile.


Let's take Jesus, the most well known sensitive person ever. To the day he died, he still prayed to God to forgive them. For they do not know what they do.

[Ciona]

[Greenslade]'Technically' it's not the ego itself that reacts but the unconscious, it's the unconscious that creates and 'drives' the ego.]

Exactly what I'm getting at--various factors at play and to what extent it all varies or doesn't--your statement can mean a lot of different things. Especially from the standpoint of multi-dimensional awareness. Or dare I say it, divine awareness.

[Greenslade] Essentially the ego looks after external reality while the unconscious takes care of internal reality, and the two are in a 'symbiotic relationship'. If the mind is 'disturbed' - which can indicate a mental health issue - that affects the ego since the mind is a 'contributor' to the ego.]

Yes I agree with all of this but how it affects the ego, necessarily, is what is in question (and perhaps parlayed) here

[Greenslade] Anger is an unconscious emotional response to external stimuli]

Since they're in a symbiotic relationship, it can also be a quite conscious response to external stimuli, depending on the level of integration involved, in part or not at all based in egoic 'reactivity', it is simply the energy of anger is present now and warranted i.e. 'Reality is presenting as anger now'. Although clearly the unconscious component must also be realized to some degree in order for what I'm saying to exist. It's just energy, it's an emotion, it's not a crime for it to be one's friend (not saying you're suggesting this, I'm just talking ). It belongs to 'one' in fact. It's not just 'out there', no matter how many might wish it was. As an energy and an emotion, it's not shackled. Like everything else, it has freedom in a truly integrated sense of the word. Of course, "belief systems" can be limiting, even in a 'highly evolved and aware individual', which is one of the many reasons why you have these sometimes gigantic 'falls from grace'.

If we're defining egoic reactivity as the unconscious reaction of differentiated egoic self, then I agree with all (or most as I haven't read them all) of these statements presented by you and Gem, and of course I do also regarding the self-aware and/or integrated and/or unity-'nondual awareness' individual who knows when they have been triggered in the moment or what have you. It's when we get into the higher dimensional divine Self in awareness 'integrated ego part' simply having an authentic 'reaction' and accessing/experiencing the available energy of anger to 'itself'--as it should do in authenticity, truth and awareness, that's where the concept that it's solely and always based in, and/or always doomed to be originating from (in whole or in part), and/or doomed to be based in the third dimensional 'reactivity' to me, becomes quite questionable. It doesn't mean it's not reacting. And yes, to be sure, it's still coming from the mental-emotional body...to me that doesn't necessarily automatically imply 'reactivity'. Perhaps it depends upon the evolutionary level of the soul of the 'individual' in question and what it can handle. Or what it believes and feels about anger and freedom, and as we all know and as previously stated, even within well established and firmly dependable perimeters, belief systems can be limiting.

That all being said I don't actually disagree with anything stated.

[Greenslade] and we're 'hard-wired' to respond to that which can potentially be harmful to us. It comes from the so-called 'Reptilian Brain' or the Limbic System, which is the most primal part of the brain and is 'responsible' for survival. When it's triggered it releases a flood of adrenaline which gives an 'energy boost' and the animal instincts can take over.]

Absolutely and couldn't agree more.

---

How did you guys ever get me talking here, anyway...lol...I don't do this and I got work to do...quit drawing me in, Greenslade ...This must be Running's 'fault', he created the thread

Haha guys just teasing...

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

If only more of those who perceive themselves as 'Spirit on a human Journey' understood that.

What would happen then? You mean they would appreciate their ego more?

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Gem

On the other...
..... - but because you stop winding.

Hey, gem. I like your two posts here. It really speaks to how nothing unwanted can change into wanted, untill we completely accept what is unwanted. Making total complete peace with it and stop resisting it.

It seems that the more we resist something, the more it stays.

In a more specific way perhaps, we totally accept the consequences of our own being. And allow all of it to always be perfect. And then we can be at one with the reality of things.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by lomax

These are...
.... monkey-chatter mind ceases.

Thank you for sharing this.
I guess everything serves double duty. There is a benefit to everything. A purpose and place for everything. It is all always perfectly contained by the perfection of everything that exists.