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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Interfaith

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  #251  
Old 07-09-2021, 11:15 PM
Eelco
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Okay if faith is the common denominator. Faith in what exactly.
My vote would be the faith in the human potential to surpass his or her "personal" desire and become a harmless, radiant beacon of light, hope, and Love. Whether through the idea that it's our nature or the gift of God flowing through us.
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  #252  
Old 09-09-2021, 09:25 AM
HITESH SHAH HITESH SHAH is offline
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faith in what

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eelco
Okay if faith is the common denominator. Faith in what exactly.
My vote would be the faith in the human potential to surpass his or her "personal" desire and become a harmless, radiant beacon of light, hope, and Love. Whether through the idea that it's our nature or the gift of God flowing through us.
While you clarified your perspective on it ( which is very good and valid ) ,few more things that come to my mind are : - faith in
1. single universal creator of universe and brotherhood under the fatherhood of this universal creator
2. in good and ethical conduct with ingenuity , alertness and dexterity
3. connecting with and researching the deeper meaning of the one's own and other religion with progressive outlook
4. identifying & doing away with any incorrect degenerated practices in our religion which may not be in sync with the real spirit of the religion while helping others do it for themselves in a dignified manner.
5. building bridges (cultural,social,economic,political ,spiritual,psychological, educational etc) between communities.
6. Finding and creating innovative framework for common community work like tree plantation ,environment protections , disaster relief , blood donation camps etc
7. holding genuine goodwill with people of all faith (including faith of self)
8. promoting the use of reason in faith so that practitioners of faith gains benefit of faith in this life also besides after-life
9. Promoting the faith neutral ethical framework / literature / people /education (Secularism talks about faith neutral state . But in reality ethics is lost with secularism)
10. Not antagonizing any existing faith (including our own) in promoting interfaith framework.

While all these may sound a very tall order , but everything in life u find worthwhile is a tall order when it was first conceived. So we should not be worried about concrete details on such things .
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  #253  
Old 10-09-2021, 12:40 AM
Eelco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH
While you clarified your perspective on it ( which is very good and valid ) ,few more things that come to my mind are : - faith in
1. single universal creator of universe and brotherhood under the fatherhood of this universal creator
2. in good and ethical conduct with ingenuity , alertness and dexterity
3. connecting with and researching the deeper meaning of the one's own and other religion with progressive outlook
4. identifying & doing away with any incorrect degenerated practices in our religion which may not be in sync with the real spirit of the religion while helping others do it for themselves in a dignified manner.
5. building bridges (cultural,social,economic,political ,spiritual,psychological, educational etc) between communities.
6. Finding and creating innovative framework for common community work like tree plantation ,environment protections , disaster relief , blood donation camps etc
7. holding genuine goodwill with people of all faith (including faith of self)
8. promoting the use of reason in faith so that practitioners of faith gains benefit of faith in this life also besides after-life
9. Promoting the faith neutral ethical framework / literature / people /education (Secularism talks about faith neutral state . But in reality ethics is lost with secularism)
10. Not antagonizing any existing faith (including our own) in promoting interfaith framework.
The bigger the list, the easier to disagree. Buddhism doesn't necessarily believe in a single universal creator so point one can pose a problem. As will point 4, who is going to decide what the real spirit of religion is?

The others seem valid and doable for anyone with faith in the human ability to rise above themselves. Just lose everything between the () marks. For interfaith to succeed I don't think there's much room to make exceptions regardless of our personal opinion? Thinking about point 9 here..
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  #254  
Old 10-09-2021, 01:52 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH
It is not only viable , it is sustainable and can thrive with right ways.
I would love there to be peace with interfaith, but I don't think it's healthy to indulge false hope or wishful thinking.
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world wars were mainly fought among Christian nations with no religion involved.
The Irish situation was a religious war between Catholics and protestants. Political/national/regional/tribal wars are all fought for the same reason as religious wars. The identity complex of the religion, party, nation or other conformed identity group separates them from 'everyone who is not'. The act of identifying imposes the 'not' position on others, and thus violence is endemic to the identification itself.
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So like any other thing benefit or other wise of anything depends on the user and not on the object per se . And that way rightly practiced interfaith really is not only viable but also fully functional and alive at least in this forum with great hope for future.
We can find examples where interfaith functions by excluding every example where it doesn't, but that's confirmation bias. If we look at the whole spectrum of religious identity we see non-practicing to moderate to extremes. The identity structure is essentially dual, like you are Catholic or you're not. What say ye? Us or not? Since dual identity structures are defined by polar opposites, the extreme ends are essential to such functions. The same with nationalists, patriots, left/right politics... they all have extreme ends because it's how identity structure works. When an individual identifies with the religion they internalise the identity structure and are unwittingly supporting the extreme ends. Hence it cannot work. Same reason as Nations will war, Political ideologies will clash, tribes will battle and gangs will fight.
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  #255  
Old 10-09-2021, 07:08 AM
HITESH SHAH HITESH SHAH is offline
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things in common

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eelco
Buddhism doesn't necessarily believe in a single universal creator so point one can pose a problem.

As I understand Buddhism (Buddha is 10th incarnation of Vishnu in Hinduism and hence He is God even to Hindu) , it provides a path to enlightenment , 4 NT framework for ethical orientation , allegiance to Dhamma/ Sangha . Buddha is considered leading enlightened person (without calling him God) and seekers even pray Him . While for many, belief in God -super creator makes life very easy , we may not and should not have any issues if Buddhist can progress in enlightenment path even without that belief and take refuge in enlightened being like Buddha .

Buddhism is not alone in this belief . Even Sankhya Darshan in Hinduism , Jain religion also share similar framework . There can not be any compulsion of whatsoever in changing one's personal belief .

Any points are not like something written in stone . It can definitely be re-worded to be acceptable to all without loosing its effectiveness.

Quote:
As will point 4, who is going to decide what the real spirit of religion is?

I think almost every religion has sufficient framework to lead a genuine and sincere seeker to the real spirit of religion. In you case Buddhism 4 NTs and associated religious practices can be sufficient and there is no reason whatsoever to abandon existing noble practices to find out real spirit.

Quote:
Thinking about point 9 here..
As we all share lot of things in common like govts , nation, resources , institutions and many a societies today are multi-religion society , so in order to instil a sense of confidence for everyone and in everyone , it's important to have faith neutral language .An example could be the 84th Congress of 1956 passed a joint resolution "declaring IN GOD WE TRUST the national motto of the United States." "In God We Trust" appeared on all American currency after 1956. Of course it may have been done as an opposition to atheist Soviet era . In US courts of Justice , suit against it was not accepted because it is expressed in faith neutral way.
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  #256  
Old 10-09-2021, 07:33 AM
HITESH SHAH HITESH SHAH is offline
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identity complex

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
The identity structure is essentially dual... Since dual identity structures are defined by polar opposites, the extreme ends are essential to such functions. The same with nationalists, patriots, left/right politics... .... Same reason as Nations will war, Political ideologies will clash, tribes will battle and gangs will fight.

Hi Gem ,
Thanks for your feedback . I do agree religions do provide identity framework . But that's not the only work they do or are supposed to do . Religion has to provide hope , explain intrinsic reality , guide seekers , exhort seekers for good actions , increase co-operation etc .

So if our focus is merely identity structure then what you say is 100% correct and conflict is inherently built in . However if the focus is true enlightenment , upliftment , co-operation ,amelioration then that may not matter much.

However I do agree most of the time people have focussed on identity framework then on core principles . So I dont discard your observation in toto and very much appreciate it.

Also identity problem is outside religion in science , trade ,commerce ,politics , education , ideologies , classes etc . Everywhere if have core focus , we can avoid identity conflicts everywhere.
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  #257  
Old 23-09-2021, 08:35 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH
Hi Gem ,
Thanks for your feedback . I do agree religions do provide identity framework . But that's not the only work they do or are supposed to do . Religion has to provide hope , explain intrinsic reality , guide seekers , exhort seekers for good actions , increase co-operation etc.
Religion is not required for that, and most of it doesn't even do it.

Quote:
So if our focus is merely identity structure then what you say is 100% correct and conflict is inherently built in.
Without the identity structure religions couldn't exist.
Quote:
However if the focus is true enlightenment , upliftment , co-operation ,amelioration then that may not matter much.
No religion necessary.

Quote:
Also identity problem is outside religion
Exactly. Religion is just one form off egomania amongst many. There are all sorts of paradigms that manifest 'us vs not-us'. Personally, I don't ascribe to a country, a political side, a religion or anything else because I already know it's all a story I made up about 'me' - which isn't actually true.
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  #258  
Old 23-09-2021, 08:45 AM
Altair Altair is offline
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I believe many who want ''interfaith'' are just pushing for establishing a global religion, cherry picking the good parts and creating something that 'works' for everyone. IOW, interfaith dialogue can be an attempt to advance a globalist agenda. I really don't see the point in having Catholics and Buddhists, or Islamicists and Jains, all in one room, looking for 'similarities'. It has little substance and is a shallow exercise.

Interestingly, people tend to create a certain biome everywhere, a modern intensive farmland, a predictable landscape where we rule out anomalies, one that 'works' for the greatest number of people. The same forces attempt this exact process with economies, health care, culture, or indeed, religion.
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  #259  
Old 25-09-2021, 01:27 PM
HITESH SHAH HITESH SHAH is offline
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Status quo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Religion is not required for that, and most of it doesn't even do it.

Without the identity structure religions couldn't exist. No religion necessary.
.
Hi Gem / Altair
I understand n respect your elaborate counter views and very much appreciate time taken to respond to posts. Thanks very much.
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  #260  
Old Today, 04:32 AM
Svaroga Svaroga is offline
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The first step to interfaith co-existence is the separation of church and state. When the concept of the separation of church and state was created to introduce some semblance of toleration because the founding fathers came from many denominations number of whom were very secular or deistic and just a century earlier the Thirty Years War. When we have a separation of church and state/or other polity then we can understand that we have something in common other than religion, before your can can have an interfaith conversation you need to know about people other than yourself. Empathy and the natural world first, once you recognize the human you can have a civil discussion where you can be assured your rights will be tolerated. From this point it is important that there is a difference between your right to be X and the person tolerating the idea that X holds because not all ideas are suited for others, part of being civil is being able to be defensive to ideas adverse to yourself. First step is secularization.

Interfaith in this view is then relative because you will always disagree with someone on something.
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