what does "beyond good and evil'' mean in regard to non duality

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by saurab

In the beginning of creation (not the earth but the heavenly world) twenty lakh years ago, all beings were given a mind that was conditioned by God to be good....

One-third of the angels fell from grace with Satan because they said that we will be ruled by Satan and not God and it is they who are us.

Now I would like to talk about "Aham Brahmasmi" or "I am Brahman".".

As per this
1.there seems to be some beginning and end (20 lacs years) . You can check 41 Bible vese about eternal life in Christinity
2.Satan seems to be having some independent power beyond God.
3. there are 2/3 who did not fell from grace . Are these still angels
4. Aham Brahmasmi is whisper/feeling to be made by seeker to God and not to be announced / declared /claimed in open places/fora like this . Public claims of self being Brahman is wrong and at best can be taken to be ignorance (if not fraud) of the seeker.
You can see Jesus claiming the similar. If u blame Jesus , then it is your ignorance and not the claims of Jesus.

I and the Father are one.
John 10:28-30

Originally Posted by saurab

free will implies not choosing not to be good, but choosing good over evil. In the beginning there was subtle evil that most would call good.

Subtle Evil in creation by God?

Then, Puny God. Non-compassionate God let us suffer because of his want of watching a thrilling movie and so created this subtle evil, like Loki in Disguise as Odin in "Thor 3".

Why choice given, instead of condition? Why a "subtle Evil" choice given, if conditioned as Good is really better?

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by saurab

But the idea of goodness is not relative, even though there is lesser and greater goodness. Goodness is something absolute, and evil is not the opposite of goodness. It has no relationship to goodness.

This seems to contradict your initial post.

Peace

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by saurab

Non duality pandits often say that reality is nondual, absolutely beyond good and evil. Have you wondered what that means ? How about killing someone ?.

Nondual perception is based on pure consciousness or consciousness purified of its cravings and aversions (raag-dvesh) through meditation and spiritual exercise.

So the question of anyone based on nondual perception killing anyone does not arise, because there is no aversion or hatred whatsoever to serve as a catalyst for murder.

A person established in a dualistic state and governed by his unconscious cravings and aversions can commit murder or other crimes easily, because vices like hatred, lust, greed (which can lead to crimes) are but strong desires in the form of cravings and aversions.

It is the dualistic state that actually creates and perpetuates conflict and strife.

Originally Posted by iamthat

Non-duality is the realisation of that state of Being where there are no opposites.

This is the right definition. Nondual perception comes with constant awareness which transcends the habitual thinking and emoting process that fosters duality.

The nondual state is a state of experiential understanding and not mere intellectual understanding.

Many find it hard to figure the intellectual understanding as well and go around in circles. Some even cling on to delusional ideas and spreads ignorance.

Unless the experiential understanding is attained through meditation or spiritual practice, the intellectual understanding is bound to be erroneous.

As a proverb goes. "One look is worth a thousand reports.'

[Aupmanyav]

Saurab said: "One-third of the angels fell from grace with Satan because they said that we will be ruled by Satan and not God and it is they who are us."
That is a very high rate of failure. If God was in some modern manufacturing unit, the company might have become bankrupt in no time.

However, in 'non-duality' there are no avataras.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Aupmanyav

Our deepest nature is selfishness. Family and society grooms us not to be selfish.

Another perspective is that our deepest nature is pure Being, expressing as Consciousness.

Consciousness in human form identifies with the personality and the small separate ego, thus giving rise to selfishness. We seek to promote and protect our own interests, even at the expense of others.

When Consciousness ceases to identify with the personality expression then Consciousness naturally expresses as selflessness and service to others.

The difficulties of the spiritual journey arise from the conflict between the selfish personality and the selfless Consciousness behind the personality.

Peace

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by saurab

One-third of the angels fell from grace with Satan because they said that we will be ruled by Satan and not God and it is they who are us. So all of us are fallen beings.

A bit of a side issue, but the Urantia book gives an interesting perspective on this.

According to the Urantia book, the Earth and its inhabitants was just one of countless planets going through its own evolutionary development following an established pattern under the guidance of an angelic hierarchy. Lucifer, the angelic Being in charge of Earth, considered that there was a more efficient way to bring about this development. So Lucifer broke away from the established pattern and was supported by some of the angelic hierarchy. Hence the idea of the angelic revolt and the "war in Heaven". The Earth was quarantined, Lucifer was allowed to proceed in isolation, and the Earth became an experimental testing-ground.

So we are not fallen beings, but we are part of an experiment in developing consciousness. Only time will tell if this experiment is successful.

A side issue, but it does offer an interesting perspective on the whole idea of good and evil and the nature of suffering on Earth.

Peace

[amirali]

Originally Posted by saurab

Non duality pandits often say that reality is nondual, absolutely beyond good and evil. Have you wondered what that means ? How about killing someone ? Will you do it for the sake of going beyond good and evil (putting your money where your (mouth) theories are) ?

no freewill. no time. no BODY. the above is a nicely spun story, nothing more. good vs evil counts in relativity but has no reality in actuality. there is only THIS.

[charly233]

Originally Posted by saurab

Non duality pandits often say that reality is nondual, absolutely beyond good and evil. Have you wondered what that means ?

It seems to me that beyond good and evil is absolute Good. I don't believe in evil. There is just ignorance. Most so-called evil is carried out by people who believe, in their ignorance, that they are doing good. People are always doing the best they can given their state of knowledge, understanding and awareness.

I am not sure that good/evil is a duality that needs to be transcended. Evil, if you want to use that word, is anything that breaks the moral law of the universe which is to cause no harm to others. It is wrong even to kill killers. Capital punishment is against the moral law. Killers should be healed and educated, not executed.

Absolute goodness rules the universe. God is absolute Good. Ignorance, not evil, is what undermines goodness. The duality should be good versus ignorance. The question is why does ignorance exist? I can only really look at my own ignorance. This ignorance seems to come from social conditioning that denies the God that I am and which denies the moral order. The social conditioning is ultimately an illusion that undermines the absolute goodness.

Only the goodness is real. Everything else is an illusion. Some dualities facilitate the goodness. Other dualities, such as those that promote the separation of God and the individual aspects of god, require a non-dualistic approach in order to allign with the absolute Good.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by amirali

there is only THIS.

what is THIS?