Reality Is Not As It Seems

Originally Posted by Kioma

Well said!

Also, it is context that gives things meaning. Without context, there can be no meaning. So, physicality and spirituality ARE 'real' within their respective contexts, which also logically makes it's opposite not 'real'.

It is the power of transcendence that frees us from the prison of the physical perspective. Transcendence is openness.

I've posted it elsewhere but this is the best analogy I can think of for realization of an underlying reality.

Think of a dream. Now think of attaining lucidity within the dream. Transpose that to a similar experience in waking reality. Of course it is more meaningful for anyone who's had a lucid dream but I imagine anyone can grasp the concept.

Taking the dream analogy a bit further. If one does attain lucidity within a dream one might notice abnormalities. When I was actively practicing lucid dreaming my best reality check was looking at my hands and counting fingers. Six fingers on one hand and four on the other, and some of the fingers are too short and stubby and others too long and slender.

Now picture Existence Consciousness Bliss "dreaming" physical reality. It will be an exquisite, rich and intricate physical reality staggering in its breadth, depth and beauty. After all we are speaking of Omnipotence, Omnipresence and Omniscience of unimaginable intelligence and creativity.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

The story is the manifestation is real however it has no inherent existence. That is it's impermanent. It has a beginning and an end, whereas the One has inherent existence with no beginning or end.

The whole "illusion" and "unreal" position taken literally is a misunderstanding of non-duality.

The real illusion is non-recognition of the underlying reality. Of thinking the impermanent is all there is and identification with that reality alone is the cause of suffering.

Ok. That was different terminology for the same concepts. Using your terms, the difference between Oneness and the manifestation is that the manifestion has no permanance and Oneness is permanant. The point remains the same, Oneness is already manifesting as impermanent duality so any apparent change in the manifestation cannot produce any more or less Oneness, which is already all the states appearing in the manifestation, and will be any changed state that may appear. Nothing at all can be done to achieve what is already the case.

[God-Like]

If it rains for only 5 minutes, it's no more or less real than if it rained forevermore .


x daz x

Originally Posted by God-Like

If it rains for only 5 minutes, it's no more or less real than if it rained forevermore .


x daz x

At some point the rain stops, be it when the Sun expands into its red giant phase, stripping away Earth's atmosphere and boiling its seas or when the universe ends in either a Big Chill or Big Crunch.

Not even the universe lasts forever. It had a beginning and will have an end so it too is not permanent. However there is a substrate it arises from/appear within that is permanent, existence itself. In the language of Advaita one has inherent existence and the other does not, having only borrowed existence.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I've posted it elsewhere but this is the best analogy I can think of for realization of an underlying reality.

Think of a dream. Now think of attaining lucidity within the dream. Transpose that to a similar experience in waking reality. Of course it is more meaningful for anyone who's had a lucid dream but I imagine anyone can grasp the concept.

Taking the dream analogy a bit further. If one does attain lucidity within a dream one might notice abnormalities. When I was actively practicing lucid dreaming my best reality check was looking at my hands and counting fingers. Six fingers on one hand and four on the other, and some of the fingers are too short and stubby and others too long and slender.

Now picture Existence Consciousness Bliss "dreaming" physical reality. It will be an exquisite, rich and intricate physical reality staggering in its breadth, depth and beauty. After all we are speaking of Omnipotence, Omnipresence and Omniscience of unimaginable intelligence and creativity.

That is a fantastic analogy.

Let me continue that analogy. Because we only experience self-awareness because of the spark of God consciousness that we share, we too are God - we are the dreamer, the dreamed, the dream. Because we are a part of the dream, the dream is part of us. It is subject to us and we are subject to it - so as God-like pointed out even though events may come and go, that does not mean they are gone. On the contrary, once they have existed they can never be taken away. They have happened, forever indelibly etched in the energy pattern of all that is.

For one thing - otherwise, what's the point?

That's pretty much as 'real' as you can get.

Much of the literature, however, assumes you are an ego looking for transcendence - so the literature is written to cultivate an egoic perspective open to transcendence, which requires some convincing. Muddling about with 'technicalities' just won't do.

Notice how the definition of 'reality' shifts with the context - in spirituality, it is permanence. In physicality, it is simply existent or factual.

Is the 'spiritual' real? Yes it is. Is the 'physical' real? It too has its 'reality', and indelibility, as has been shown.

Originally Posted by Kioma

That is a fantastic analogy.

Let me continue that analogy. Because we only experience self-awareness because of the spark of God consciousness that we share, we too are God - we are the dreamer, the dreamed, the dream. Because we are a part of the dream, the dream is part of us. It is subject to us and we are subject to it - so as God-like pointed out even though events may come and go, that does not mean they are gone. On the contrary, once they have existed they can never be taken away. They have happened, forever indelibly etched in the energy pattern of all that is.

For one thing - otherwise, what's the point?

That's pretty much as 'real' as you can get.

Much of the literature, however, assumes you are an ego looking for transcendence - so the literature is written to cultivate an egoic perspective open to transcendence, which requires some convincing. Muddling about with 'technicalities' just won't do.

Notice how the definition of 'reality' shifts with the context - in spirituality, it is permanence. In physicality, it is simply existent or factual.

Is the 'spiritual' real? Yes it is. Is the 'physical' real? It too has its 'reality', and indelibility, as has been shown.

I got the idea of the analogy from Swami Sarvapriyananda's lectures on the Mandukya Upanishad and self inquiry.

https://youtu.be/scLipiyG6ns

I suppose the waking analogy to a lucid dream would be considered a mystical experience and a mind-blowing one at that. LOL!

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

...I suppose the waking analogy to a lucid dream would be considered a mystical experience and a mind-blowing one at that. LOL!

What we experience in a dream can have two (or a combination of the two) sources; Internal, or external.

Internally sourced dreams are reflections of our subconscious or simple reprocessings of our life's events, or both.

Externally sourced dreams are those influenced by others, by spirit, by our guides, by prophecy, or other such dreams. To the egoic consciousness these would be potentially mind-blowing mystical experiences, indeed.

Originally Posted by Kioma

What we experience in a dream can have two (or a combination of the two) sources; Internal, or external.

Internally sourced dreams are reflections of our subconscious or simple reprocessings of our life's events, or both.

Externally sourced dreams are those influenced by others, by spirit, by our guides, by prophecy, or other such dreams. To the egoic consciousness these would be potentially mind-blowing mystical experiences, indeed.

It's even beyond that. I was alluding to being wide awake and having the experience of knowing from the perspective of Turiya. That is a visceral knowing of being infinite consciousness and not mind-body. The experience of all within the One and the One within all.

That's like being in a lucid dream and knowing without a shadow of doubt one is the dreamer and not merely the dream body. That one is the dreamer and the entire dream, the dream body, other dream characters, landscape, trees, mountains, buildings, roads, cars, etc... are all within the dreamer.

Replace dreamer with the One and dream body with waking mind-body.

While a lucid dream is an amazing and exhilarating experience, the waking analogy is something far more profound.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

...While a lucid dream is an amazing and exhilarating experience, the waking analogy is something far more profound.

Yes, it is.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

It's even beyond that. I was alluding to being wide awake and having the experience of knowing from the perspective of Turiya. That is a visceral knowing of being infinite consciousness and not mind-body. The experience of all within the One and the One within all.

That's like being in a lucid dream and knowing without a shadow of doubt one is the dreamer and not merely the dream body. That one is the dreamer and the entire dream, the dream body, other dream characters, landscape, trees, mountains, buildings, roads, cars, etc... are all within the dreamer.

Replace dreamer with the One and dream body with waking mind-body.

While a lucid dream is an amazing and exhilarating experience, the waking analogy is something far more profound.

Oh my gosh! I just came across this analogy in a Dennis Waite blog!

http://www.advaita.org.uk/discourses...ness_waite.htm

The ‘bottom line’ is that nothing matters. There is only the non-dual reality, the Self. The rest is only a wonderful, ever-changing manifestation – merely name and form of that same, unchanging, unmanifest reality; ever whole, ever complete, never two. This is the case regardless of whether or not the apparent person ‘realizes’ this truth. But it is also part of this marvelous, apparent creation that, occasionally, one of these ‘persons’ wonders about the nature of this reality and looks for understanding and self-knowledge. Traditional advaita provides a structured, reasonable and assured approach to gain this understanding, entirely within the context of this seeming manifestation.

One might argue that, whether or not this apparent person gains self-knowledge makes not the slightest difference to the reality – and one would have to concede that this is necessarily the case. Nevertheless, at the level of the seeming world of duality, it seems to make the most enormous difference to the ‘person’. It is the difference between the dreamer trapped in a nightmare that he erroneously believes to be true and the lucid dreamer who recognizes the dream for what it is and enjoys every minute.

Exactly!