“Everything is made of consciousness but not everything is conscious “

[Miss Hepburn]

iamthat: I would suggest not reading his books again ...why? Just because
Eben A. has grown SO much since writing them, (I only know of 1).
There is one long lecture he gives that hit it out of the park!!!
If I find it I'll include it here. Sometimes at first we have a hard time putting our exp all together
in adequate words...later we find them, he did!! :)

Wanna say again, I enjoy Rupert.

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

...Wanna say again, I enjoy Rupert.

I also enjoy Rupert's views, in fact,
when I realized I AM, he was among the very few spiritual speakers to whom I connected for his words resonated with my experience.
I tried before the realization and could not figure out what he was talking about, I had to see for myself.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by pixiedust

And no, the way he describes it is unlike the Zen koan process, which might seem similar to the uninitiated (no offence ) but in my opinion, has a wholly different context and means.

Well, I am no Buddhist but it does not seem necessary to be a Buddhist to work with Zen koans.

The nature of Zen koans is that they cannot be understood with mental reasoning. But we try to reason and we push our mental boundaries until eventually the mind gives up, there is a moment of spiritual intuition, and in that state we see reality more clearly.

Which does not seem dissimilar to Rupert's statement: Through its reasoning powers the mind is brought to its own limit, and as a result the edifice of mind collapses. This is the experience of understanding, the timeless moment in which Consciousness is revealed to itself.

Although obviously Rupert is not talking in a Buddhist context.

Peace

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

iamthat: I would suggest not reading his books again ...why? Just because he has grown SO much since writing them, (I only know of 1). There is one long lecture he gives that hit it out of the park!!! If I find it I'll include it here.

Thanks, Miss H. I would be interested to hear what he has to say now.

Peace

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by pixiedust

Deleted

You are welcome to your opinions.

But why do you believe that it is necessary to be a Buddhist in order to work with Zen koans?

They can be very effective tools whatever our path is.

Peace

[Miss Hepburn]

I am also not Buddhist, but draw a lot of wisdom from Buddhist teaching.
I'm also not Jewish and draw wisdom from Jewish teachings.
I'm not a Hindu, but draw much wisdom from Krishna and the Gita.

[pixiedust]

Originally Posted by iamthat

You are welcome to your opinions.
But why do you believe that it is necessary to be a Buddhist in order to work with Zen koans?
They can be very effective tools whatever our path is.e

Zen koans, I imagine, are used in the context of Zen Buddhist training, and for this reason they aren't funny 'riddles' or DIY artefacts, although with the internet, many people like to advertize it as such.

I really have no inclination to educate someone who's clearly so sure about their own uneducated (i.e. with no experience or genuine knowledge behind it) perspective, so as I said above, you're welcome to do it.

But in no way is that Zen Buddhist training or respectful of their reality/intention/usage.

YMMV.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

I am also not Buddhist, but draw a lot of wisdom from Buddhist teaching.
I'm also not Jewish and draw wisdom from Jewish teachings.
I'm not a Hindu, but draw much wisdom from Krishna and the Gita.

Yes, there comes a point where we leave behind all these "isms".

Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism, Advaitism, Sufism, whatever. We can apply the wisdom of all these traditions without being bound by any of them.

Consciousness is not Buddhist. Consciousness is not Jewish. Consciousness is not Hindu. Consciousness is simply present and all things arise in Consciousness.

Peace