Did the serpent lie ?

[Molearner]

Genesis 2:16....."And the Lord God commanded the man, 'You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die' ".

Genesis 3:1-4....."Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?" The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, 'You must not eat from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' " "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.

A simple question: Did the serpent lie ? Or did God lie ?

[foundation123]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Genesis 2:16....."And the Lord God commanded the man, 'You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die' ".

Genesis 3:1-4....."Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?" The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, 'You must not eat from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' " "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.

A simple question: Did the serpent lie ? Or did God lie ?

Unless the serpent is figurative of evil, in which case lies would be its preferred content, the question should be can the serpent talk.

God cannot lie and is not responsible for nonsense written in His name. He is slow to wrath, extremely, divinely patient and has put up with all the nonsense, provided He is.

In the new testament it states the serpent beguiled eve.

be·guile
/bəˈɡīl/
Learn to pronounce
verb
past tense: beguiled; past participle: beguiled
1.
charm or enchant (someone), sometimes in a deceptive way.

I realize I did not answer the simple question.
Eve did die.So God did not not lie. Then again God cannot lie.
When the devil speaks he is speaking a lie and is the father of lies.

The story does not make sense at all.

So God wants his people to remain ignorant and self-unaware? And people can do that - defy the will of God, who can make ANYTHING happen She wants, by definition???

You know what, I'm going to posit a logical conundrum. And that is 'How could a self-actualizing consciousness be 'willed' into existence?' I mean, by definition, a self-actualizing consciousness is 'self-actualizing' only when it is Self-actualizing under it's own volition. Think about that, and you will see why I feel the serpent isn't so much a villain as a victim of Fox News style reporting.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Genesis 2:16....."And the Lord God commanded the man, 'You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die' ".

Genesis 3:1-4....."Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?" The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, 'You must not eat from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' " "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.

A simple question: Did the serpent lie ? Or did God lie ?

The issue of who is telling the truth will be partially answered at Armageddon.


Now having said that, when and where did these scriptures get compiled? That in of itself may have a major bearing on our understanding of the subject.


Then compare this account to similar accounts such as Atlantis and you will see why it is such a controversial subject.

[Lynn]

Hello

I wonder if there is a lie in play here or was it a temptation a test of fate. We all know well that just because we see lets say an animal eat from a tree and live that we can do the same and live. For one its safe for another it is poison. I have to wonder if maybe the tree was that of a poisonous form and it was a test to see what Eve would do. Maybe it was her fate or in her life path to die in that moment. In this there is no good or evil at play just a lesson in temptations and trust.

Lynn

Originally Posted by Lynn

Hello

I wonder if there is a lie in play here or was it a temptation a test of fate. We all know well that just because we see lets say an animal eat from a tree and live that we can do the same and live. For one its safe for another it is poison. I have to wonder if maybe the tree was that of a poisonous form and it was a test to see what Eve would do. Maybe it was her fate or in her life path to die in that moment. In this there is no good or evil at play just a lesson in temptations and trust.

Lynn

Excellent point.

It might have been a reverse-psychology goading to get Eve to choose self-awareness. Many have seen this in children where they react by doing exactly what they are told not to do.

Afterwards. Eve was no longer a child.

This makes the serpent exactly what you might expect - a tool of God.

[foundation123]

Originally Posted by Lynn

Hello

I wonder if there is a lie in play here or was it a temptation a test of fate. We all know well that just because we see lets say an animal eat from a tree and live that we can do the same and live. For one its safe for another it is poison. I have to wonder if maybe the tree was that of a poisonous form and it was a test to see what Eve would do. Maybe it was her fate or in her life path to die in that moment. In this there is no good or evil at play just a lesson in temptations and trust.

Lynn

If God does not want us to test Him, it should only make sense that He does not test us.

if He is omniscient, is there a need for Him to test us.

If things are left to fate, maybe we should sit back and relax. If food is dropped in our mouth, we are destined to live else to die.

We can have endless arguments, discussions, theologies and they are all a waste. What is extremely important, necessary and sufficient is that we repent and be good. So what may make sense is to understand the repentance better and how we can make it a reality.

[foundation123]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

In the new testament it states the serpent beguiled eve.


I realize I did not answer the simple question.
Eve did die.So God did not not lie. Then again God cannot lie.
When the devil speaks he is speaking a lie and is the father of lies.

The death of Eve was not proximate to the act of disobedience unless we speak of spiritual death.

Why again do we harp on Adam and Abraham? Christianity is not Abrahamic faith, not Adam's sin.

Christianity is about us as in we and Jesus with everything else a context.

It is not Abrahamic blind faith but that which has a basis on Truth, Wisdom. Love ...

The sin's do not pass from generation to generation, but we are held accountable for our own. Our sin not from Adam but from Jesus if we look at the Gospels closely. We would not have sin if He had not spoken to us. if He had not worked in our midst.

Our sin far greater, for we choose to remain in darkness after we have the Light. Our sin greater for we say that we can see and yet are blind.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Genesis 2:16....."And the Lord God commanded the man, 'You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die' ".

Genesis 3:1-4....."Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?" The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, 'You must not eat from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' " "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.

A simple question: Did the serpent lie ? Or did God lie ?

All those stories are allegories (stories that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning). There is no question about who lied.

Eating from "the tree of the knowledge" represents the man's developing of an intellect, which emboldened his ego enough to forget who and where from he is. Hence, when the man has to leave his temporary sojourn on Earth, he thinks that he "will surely die". The serpent is his ego. Eve is the emotional element of man's personality.

instincts -> emotions -> intellect -> intution