To belive in Christ

[sky]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

This is my belief too, you can not come to Christ unless you are called to Him, you, on your own, can not come to Him, if the truth is not revealing itself to you, you don't know about Him and so you can not come to what you don't even know exists.

At least this is my opinion and the scripture suggests this too.

' you can not come to what you don't even know exists. '


You might be surprised Don't believe everything Scriptures say.....

[foundation123]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

This is my belief too, you can not come to Christ unless you are called to Him, you, on your own, can not come to Him, if the truth is not revealing itself to you, you don't know about Him and so you can not come to what you don't even know exists.

At least this is my opinion and the scripture suggests this too.

I think this is very flawed.

This puts the onus on Him. If I cannot do something by myself, I cannot be held responsible for not doing it.

I do not believe that the whole of scripture is God breathed, flawless, perfect. Even some of what is true may not belong, due to the way it distracts from Truth, the core, the basic, the foundation.

He has taught us to fish and it is on us to cast the hook, the net rather than stand on the shore (some times stand in desert) and say Lord, Lord, let the fish be in my stomach and be digested.

We have been asked to Repent. Walk in the straight path. This we must do.

Even accepting foreknowledge and predestination, it is only the evil who would suggest that we sit back and relax. Those who sit back and relax are probably those who He did not foreknow as His. Those who would mend themselves are those whom He foreknew as His.

IMO these theologies are not important. What is important is being good. A good Christian.

[foundation123]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

This is a good point, how do you know Christ? You read His words, this is how you know about Him, but many read His words and just go on with life as if Christ had no impact on their understanding of the world, there's something more, there has to be something more.

I think we the people, are being Romans in Rome. We are a flock of sheep. Only that we do not have a good Sheppard. Only blind and evil ones. Christ is just "Lord, Lord". The Christ they call out to is only name sake.

The sheep themselves, blind and evil too.

We need washing first and then a newness of spirit.

We need a logical slaughtering of the priests of baal.

But I guess the prophecy is that things will break loose. Even the elite on the verge of deception. But prophecies do not have to come true. The only way to stop is through repentance. Will we?

[Morpheus]

I disagree Foundation. In fact, apart from time they have occurred.
The world, ensconced in time, will see their fulfillment.

[davidmartin]

Foundation you are saying don't relax, but also relaxing can take the form of falling back on black and white views of things that risk over simplifying, this also is a form of relaxation. that constant striving to understand and relate inevitably leads to graduations and shades and i think in that a more firmer grasp of the truth without watering down. so i admire what you wrote also think it a bit black and white

[django]

If we have faith the size of a mustard seed then when we descend into the deepest darkest recesses of the heart that tiny seed can be enough to remind us that Jesus is Light. If we speak His name in the darkness a small light will appear and start working secretly in us like the yeast in dough. IME.

[foundation123]

Originally Posted by davidmartin

Foundation you are saying don't relax, but also relaxing can take the form of falling back on black and white views of things that risk over simplifying, this also is a form of relaxation. that constant striving to understand and relate inevitably leads to graduations and shades and i think in that a more firmer grasp of the truth without watering down. so i admire what you wrote also think it a bit black and white

I am not saying "don't Relax". I am saying saying "Do not relax in this state." . We can relax once we move into a good spiritual state. When doing good will become a natural state, effort less and quite likely a relaxed way.

We are not at risk of over simplifying. We never were. The answer plain and simple has been in front of us are ages. No. We are not content with that. There has to be something secretive. Something very difficult.

Love and wisdom are the core that we need. Emphasized across faith and even those who do not have faith. From this core flows Courage, Contentment, humility, patience, compassion, mercy, forgiveness and the like.

Repentance is letting go of foolishness,hatred, anger, jealousy,greed and embracing wisdom and love.

Black and white: There can be millions of hues. Looking at a binary perspective, makes it easier to explain and understand. Once we draw the outline, the framework we can fill it with colors.

Once we fix our minds and hearts, put a solid foundation there, we can build castles on top. Else it is a house built on sand.

So, it sounds like should grab a cold beverage, put my feet up, and wait for some grace or a call from the J man. Well, I hope one of them comes, or if not, I hope those other Christians who say without Jesus I am going to hell are wrong, as that just don't seem fair to me.

I think perhaps I have always been searching for something, but for much of my life I was searching for a way to get the world, those in it, and events, to work out the way I felt they should, in order to give me, and those whom I approved of, life as I thought it should be. And when that didn't go the way I wanted, I either decided there was no such thing as God and Jesus, or perhaps they were really just a couple of nasty pricks. I found the world lacking and I therefore judged that God was either lacking in morals or existence. Only later in hindsight was I able to look back and see that though the world did not work the way I think it should, it does seem to be working the way it needs to work. Once I put aside the idea that I know better, I could see past my own judgments of the world to see the love and wisdom in Jesus's teachings, and seeing that was enough to allow me to have faith in the parts that I still can't see and understand. So that is why I believe in what I do.

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by ketzer

So, it sounds like should grab a cold beverage, put my feet up, and wait for some grace or a call from the J man. Well, I hope one of them comes, or if not, I hope those other Christians who say without Jesus I am going to hell are wrong, as that just don't seem fair to me.

I think perhaps I have always been searching for something, but for much of my life I was searching for a way to get the world, those in it, and events, to work out the way I felt they should, in order to give me, and those whom I approved of, life as I thought it should be. And when that didn't go the way I wanted, I either decided there was no such thing as God and Jesus, or perhaps they were really just a couple of nasty pricks. I found the world lacking and I therefore judged that God was either lacking in morals or existence. Only later in hindsight was I able to look back and see that though the world did not work the way I think it should, it does seem to be working the way it needs to work. Once I put aside the idea that I know better, I could see past my own judgments of the world to see the love and wisdom in Jesus's teachings, and seeing that was enough to allow me to have faith in the parts that I still can't see and understand. So that is why I believe in what I do.

so, basically its no different from the games we play with our kids to get them to think for themselves, we set a target and watch them flunk doing things that will never work. then wait for them to figure it out secretly hoping they will but not helping them?
it's really a mirror of our own adult experience and while seeming unfair is designed to help longer term. can't get that toy down off the curtain rail huh?
too bad. i'll just sit back in the armchair with a beer... thinking out my own 'toy on the curtain rail' lol