Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spiritual Development

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 02-01-2021, 10:58 PM
JustASimpleGuy
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Thanks for the replies. Many good things to think about. What I tend to be thinking about lately is just how important all this thinking, meditating, practicing, etc...is. How much time does it take away from just being? Or then again is it all just another part of just being?......alive? Part of that pathless path that only the fool does not try to follow. Maybe the path is only in our minds, yet it is good to try follow it nonetheless..? Certainly it leads somewhere, but then so does walking about aimlessly. Maybe they lead to the same place anyway. IDK, maybe I should think about it a bit more... or maybe not?

"What I have learned up to this day with the shramanas, this, o Govinda, I could have learned more quickly and more simply: In any tavern in a brothel district, my friend, among men who haul freight and play at dice I could have learned it."
Siddhartha - Hermann Hesse

I suppose what it ultimately comes down to is something deep inside. A burning passion that might initially seem beyond reason and benefit though it can't be ignored or put aside. I went through most of life without it and then was consumed with understanding consciousness. I wasn't sure where it would ultimately lead, however I couldn't leave it be, at least not for long.

Perhaps some time away from active pursuit might help sort it out? Sometimes distance brings clarity to value or lack thereof. If you let it go for a time will it pull you back or let you be? That's probably as good a test as any.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-01-2021, 11:30 PM
JustASimpleGuy
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ameliorate
No - well, not in detail. I realise he made great strides through personal enquiry but what I know of him largely springs from his dedication to meditation, the experience of which must surely have enabled his enlightenment.

Here's the Advaita take on it and mine as well. Meditation (Raja Yoga) and action (Krama Yoga) are important but supporting practices and knowledge (Jnana Yoga) is the main practice. Raja Yoga brings clarity and Karma Yoga purity to mind, plowing and fertilizing it for the seed of knowledge that removes ignorance.

As I understand Ramana Maharshi's main teaching technique was silence. His secondary teaching technique was self-inquiry via negation (Neti Neti). Follow the feeling of "I Am" and if it can be identified, pointed to be it body, mind, thoughts, emotions, title, job, gender, whatever negate it, and eventually everything is negated and all that remains is That which everything that can be identified and negated appears within. The only thing that can be said about It is That Thou Art.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-01-2021, 12:22 AM
inavalan inavalan is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,089
 
Your post can lead to a lot of ... thinking. But not all thinking is "created" equal.

Let me give you an example I just read:
Quote:
I need to examine my feelings towards the virus. Hating the virus could be dangerous. Covid 19 is a manifestation of All That Is.
Definitely one can think themselves to death. Surely, one can not-think themselves to death as well.

Playing the piano doesn't mean only hitting piano keys. Same with thinking. Same with any perception. Same with living. Same with ... dreaming.

Are you thinking while dreaming?
__________________
Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-01-2021, 12:25 AM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
I suppose what it ultimately comes down to is something deep inside. A burning passion that might initially seem beyond reason and benefit though it can't be ignored or put aside. I went through most of life without it and then was consumed with understanding consciousness. I wasn't sure where it would ultimately lead, however I couldn't leave it be, at least not for long.

Perhaps some time away from active pursuit might help sort it out? Sometimes distance brings clarity to value or lack thereof. If you let it go for a time will it pull you back or let you be? That's probably as good a test as any.
Well, many do say that one should follow their passion, but as you say, often it can't be ignored or put aside anyway, so one perhaps has no true choice.

Consciousness is a curious thing to try to understand. Both a race car driver, and an auto mechanic try to understand how a car works, but each end up with a different kind of understanding. Perhaps, then a bit of both, maybe balance is the key. But on the other hand seeking balance and passion at the same time seems like trying to serve two opposing masters at once.

The thing about pulling back from analyzing the life experience to allow myself to just experience its raw essence, is that sometimes the experience can get rather difficult and bewildering. Those are the times that perhaps out of cowardice if nothing else, I seek comfort in analyzing life, seeing through it, and seeking an explanation. Yet in doing so, perhaps I blunt the sharp points of whatever experience life might otherwise have given me. I am then depriving my consciousness of the clarity of whatever lesson the experience might have instilled?

A sage is often depicted as having equanimity or balance in all things. A sage may make a good race car driver, might through calm clarity of mind and perfect execution of action win many races, but then would any of them care to bother in the first place. Could they ever know what it is to experience the passion of being in a race. IDK, but it is an interesting thing to wonder about.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-01-2021, 08:58 AM
Greenslade
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Well, many do say that one should follow their passion, but as you say, often it can't be ignored or put aside anyway, so one perhaps has no true choice.
Often Spirituality takes us away from ourselves and this is what's happening here, we're actually hard-wired by basic nature to be passionate about certain things. It's a simple survival mechanism. Some people are passionate about their Spirituality and what it might provide for them. It may not be a choice to have it, but there is a choice as to what happens after that. What about the the choice - or not - to continue breathing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Consciousness is a curious thing to try to understand. Both a race car driver, and an auto mechanic try to understand how a car works, but each end up with a different kind of understanding. Perhaps, then a bit of both, maybe balance is the key. But on the other hand seeking balance and passion at the same time seems like trying to serve two opposing masters at once.
Consciousness is a curious thing to understand when you use the mind to understand what is beyond the mind. When you becone conscious of being conscious and what you are conscious of...... Both the driver and the mechanic have their own consciousness of the parts they play and the abilities they have, but without one or the other the car isn't going very far. When you understand that you can only become conscious of consciousness......

Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
The thing about pulling back from analyzing the life experience to allow myself to just experience its raw essence, is that sometimes the experience can get rather difficult and bewildering. Those are the times that perhaps out of cowardice if nothing else, I seek comfort in analyzing life, seeing through it, and seeking an explanation. Yet in doing so, perhaps I blunt the sharp points of whatever experience life might otherwise have given me. I am then depriving my consciousness of the clarity of whatever lesson the experience might have instilled?
Explanations are of the mind and often we don't have anything near enough information to come to any kind of decent conclusion, but when you allow Life to unfold you realise that YOU are the explanation. There is more understanding in analysing the result than there is analysing what happened, because it's the outcome that endures and not the experience itsself. Then it becomes all about you. You, as you stand right here right now, are a result of your thinking (amongst other things) and surprisingly enough you may have less choice concerning what you think about and how than you realise. That's something to think about. When you start thinking about what you think about and the reasons you think it, it can blow the wax out of your ears.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
A sage is often depicted as having equanimity or balance in all things. A sage may make a good race car driver, might through calm clarity of mind and perfect execution of action win many races, but then would any of them care to bother in the first place. Could they ever know what it is to experience the passion of being in a race. IDK, but it is an interesting thing to wonder about.
Having passion doesn't necessarily negate equanimity, it's one thing to feel passion and something else to allow it to take over you. The race driver may experience the passion before and during the race and the equanimity of a sage after the race when they acknowledge their team and other drivers. A sage is quite capable of passion, being a sage doesn't exclude them from the ability to be passionate and sage might be as passionate in passing on their knowledge and experience as a racedriver is passionate about winning a race. Individual choice wthin individual context is key here - the expression of passion and not the passion itself.



You are not your thoughts and you are not your passion. You (may) have passion, you have thoughts and they are expressions of you. Who has those thoughts, who has that passion? That's the fun part.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-01-2021, 09:29 AM
HITESH SHAH HITESH SHAH is offline
Master
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,296
 
thinking akin to death

Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
If I see through this illusion of life, and this illusion of me, is that seeing reality, or just a kind of death? And if so, is it a good thing, a bad thing, or maybe just yet one more thing?

I have to say, I have been aware that I have a thinking problem for some time now. I think I think too much sometimes, right now I suppose being one of them. I like to think about the underlying nature of reality. I like to dive as deep as my limited breadth allows into physics and see what insights and clues may be there. I like to dive into the psychology of my own mind and examine what I find there, often finding there is no solid I to speak of.

For a time, I was obsessed with answering the question, “What is real?” or “I am...what?”. I have discovered many things, found them to not be real from the perspective of what lies beneath them, but I don’t think I have come any closer to answering those questions, and indeed seem further away than ever. Unless of course, I just throw up my hands and say, “Everything is real?”, the answer is, “Yes”. IDK if that is legit or not, but it does feel damn good anyway.

In my wanderings, it occurred to me that if I can explain away reality as illusion, and explain away myself as an illusion of mind, and find myself with nothing left, what will I do then…? I mean technically I won’t even be there...no space, no time, no matter, no me. Is this nothingness not the goal many profess to be seeking?

So far, no matter how far I find myself wandering, I always come back to find a me made of matter occupying space in the present moment. Perhaps it is at the end of the day and I have just enjoyed a half a pint of this or that, or maybe it is getting late and I am just tired of thinking, or perhaps I just get caught up in all that illusion surrounding me in that moment. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Have I failed to achieve enlightenment? Is the attainment of nothingness the same as the attainment of enlightenment, or is it just the attainment of darkness?

IDK, but the older I get, perhaps because I have that much less life to have to face, the less I find myself preoccupied with seeing through this illusion of life, and the more content I seem to be to let it run its course. Even though, or maybe even because, I know it is a 100% fatal condition. Maybe I am just getting older and more tired, but I must say, I find the restfulness of it very satisfying. It feels like turning around and drifting with the current instead of swimming hard to get upstream. Do you suppose, at least for some, that this what death feels like?

Death in technical sense cessation or termination of something in existence (like a body death we all undergo at the end of our biological life ) . When you think / ponder over something you (or anybody) comes up with interesting perspectives and views . Some are better and some worse . For sincere person it may call for change in oneself .It is here where if one is not able to see beyond this change , one experiences death . If one is able to see beyond this changes and come to appreciate those changes , one will not experience death .

Like night is death of day-light , puberty is death of childhood , youth is death of puberty , change in our thoughts is death of our older "I' and birth of new "I" . So you would experience death if u are unfamiliar with new things and fear it and view it with skepticism and hence find older ways of thinking more comfortable.

There is no need to bother about it . Every change whether be it spiritual or material goes through such process . You can try to be slow , considerate and patient with your own pace . But in any case progress than stagnate.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-01-2021, 01:47 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southwest, USA
Posts: 24,943
  Miss Hepburn's Avatar
ketzer-just thought ----you might like the book 'The Disappearance of the Universe'...about when
we 'wake up out of this dream' (out of, not from, mind you), the Universe disappears.
Might be up your alley, maybe not.
__________________

.
*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)


Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
.


Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-01-2021, 02:52 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
ketzer-just thought ----you might like the book 'The Disappearance of the Universe'...about when
we 'wake up out of this dream' (out of, not from, mind you), the Universe disappears.
Might be up your alley, maybe not.
Thanks, I will check it out.
Albert liked to think that the moon was there even when he wasn't looking.
I am not so particular.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-01-2021, 03:04 PM
Sanctus Sanctus is offline
Seeker
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 29
 
Posted by Greenslade "Often Spirituality takes us away from ourselves...". Yeah, spiritual bypassing can be a result of overthinking, an easy trap to fall into.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-01-2021, 07:04 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
It seems to me that getting away from ourselves is often cited by some as the goal of their spirituality. Only I wonder if what they may end up doing, if such a thing is possible at all, might be called life bypassing.

I think what led me to start this thread was this issue of qualia. It is often the uncertainty or confusion in life that leads many to seek out a spiritual path. They may be looking for a way out, or at least to gain an understanding of 'why' to help them cope. It is those difficult qualities of the life experience that often lead to different aspects of suffering that they are seeking to mitigate. The monk in the monastery may find that he can avoid much of the fear and anxieties that the peasant has to deal with when trying to keep himself and his family alive. He may find that without all those worldly attachments he can tame his mind, maybe even attain enlightenment. The monk has changed the qualities of his life experience, but what I don’t know is whether he has made a good bargain or not, or if any set of qualia can be said to be better or worse than another. Perhaps the answer is different for each soul for each life.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums