Hearing voices

Originally Posted by lejonjus

Hey Greenslade. Your response got my attention.

"in most cases makes things worse"

How so? I would like to know your experience and what was used. What would you suggest to make it better.

Knowing if they went through the clinical route already would be helpful. I see that more likely to happen over "spiritual solutions"

Spiritual solutions is acknowledging there is more than we know at play and is not meant to be the only thing used.

I would be surprised if spirituality is the only approach to treatment. What I see happening in the clinical field is mental health disorders being used to discredit or disvalue what the person is sharing or experiencing. Disregarding their value and soul's process. I mentioned in another thread relating to schizophrenia how historically with certain tribes/shamanism their is value and spiritual significance to what they are experiencing and is not treated only as a disfunction.

Hi there

A while back I was asked by a member to talk to a young girl who was being convinced by so many members that she was a medium. Her back-story was that she had been going through a course of treatment for some serious psychiatric conditions and had decided she knew best. She's gone down the Spiritual route, decided she knew her own mind better than the doctors did and had told her tale of seeing dark shapes with red eyes. Quite a few other members had her convinced she was a medium because of this, and when we spoke she gave me the link to the thread. Being a medium myself it didn't take me long to 'dismantle' her argument, and convince her that her dark shapes with red eyes were avatars of her unconscious mind trying to communicate. Dark shapes are symbolic of the unconscious and the red eyes mean danger. Eventually she was convinced and admitted she had serious issues, then checked herself into a psyche ward - much to the relief of her mother. Last I heard she'd come through the other side with the support of her whole family and a realistic care plan in place. And hope for the future.

In a similar vein, a couple of people in this thread are heading the same way.

Often Spirituality can be a tool for denial and/or escapism, and running away from mental health issues is not clever no matter how Spiritual the person thinks they are. Thinking those voices are angelic beings, their Higher Self or God instead of a mental health issue is downright dangerous, because the voices are often a reflection of the internal trauma that may have caused them in the first place.

Sometimes it is what it is, and schizophrenia is a dissociative disorder. Someone calling themselves 'Spiritual' can have underlying dissociative disorders because what they might be doing is dissociating from their 'human' side to associate with something with more kudos. Being Spiritual is far better than thinking you're a headcase.

Science deals with what it knows and can prove, not beliefs. People having a Soul is a belief and not a fact, and if people can't tell the difference then they have an issue. Sometimes a mental health issue is karma from a Past Life and when that kind of mentality comes to the fore then something is obviously wrong. That is not a Spiritual solution, l neither is hearing voices or seeing 'demons' an indication of mediumship abilities. Sometimes it is what it is, sometimes it's simply someone's wiring has gone sideways. As for it being a part of the Soul's process, the only way to know that for sure from a Spiritual perspective is via one's own Akashic Records. Other than that, it's not Spirituality but superstition at best. The mental health profession takes nothing from devaluing someone's experience and frankly that doesn't help people whose self esteem can be already shot to pieces. What's needed is a realistic approach and often Spirituality ain't it.

There's a fine line between schizophrenia and Spirituality, and the same for shamanism. Tribal shamans are often revered because they can perceive other things than what can be seen with the eyes, and some of their abilities can be akin to mediumship and the like. There again, they're not always averse to taking mind-altering plants and the like and sometimes the ceremonies can have an effect on the brain. Beating out a rhythm on a drum and dancing around is a sure way to dance yourself into a frenzy - ask any raver.

[blackraven]

Excellent post, Greenslade!

Originally Posted by davidsun

I agree but, because I 'see' all e-motion (including anger, hate, fear, etc.) being spiritual, only sort of.

Anger is spiritual. Fear is spiritual. "I want what I want the way I want it" Greed is spiritual. Schizophrenics are often 'freaked out' (become unbalanced, unglued, etc.) as a result of their and others' e-motions of 'fear', 'anger', 'greed', etc. in relation to other aspects of 'the world' around them. They have to learn to recover and manage to maintain relational 'balance' and 'connection' in such 'predicament' if they are to become and continue to be functional.

What I think you, GS, are referencing are referencing as 'spiritual' - connection to and involvement with 'higher energies' etc. - is generally (not always, now!) dissociative in purpose. This only exacerbates 'schizophrenia' which is essentially a 'dissociative' disorder.

What 'schisophrenics' and (IMO) many 'spiritual' 'high flyers' need if they are to be able to engage in positively functional relationships with others is to 'ground' their 'spirituality' in the 'reality' of this world, the world that, alongside with others, they presently actually (really, except when they are off their 'rockers' , that is) are embedded live 'in'.

What is Spiritual or not is down to personal definition, but I'd go along with what you're saying. All emotion is a part of the existential experience. And I'm schizophrenic due to trauma suffered as a child, and I also used to work in mental health so I do understand what schizophrenics - and people with other mental health issues - can go through to function.

The mainstream perspective seems to be that there are distinct 'borders' between the physical and the Spiritual - as in two very distinct and separate realms/worlds. 'Higher' is usually a synonym for 'metaphysical' and that's where the dissociation begins, as people dissociate with the physical - and themselves as people - and associate with the metaphysical. Making their dissociate schizophrenia worse, as you say. And if they dissociate with the physical and dissociate with their own physicality, bonkers it is indeedy.

[sentient]

Interesting post!

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Schizophrenia and Spirituality come from the same area in the brain, and it's the toss of a coin as to which you end up with. That's science and not belief, by the way. I used to work in mental health, I have 'mild' schizophrenia and I'm clairsentient. Great fun.

Lol! (Sorry, couldn’t help it – I can imagine the trouble though).

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I know the difference between the 'internal' and the 'external' voices because I attended a mediumship course that allowed me to distinguish. The best way to describe it is that to me there is a perceptual difference between 'internal' and 'external' voices, as though I 'receive' them by 'tuning into' different frequency wavelengths. My own voices happen in my head while the mediumship stuff happens 'outside' my head. If that makes sense. It might help to try and find out where the voices 'come from' or how you perceive them. If they all 'come from the same place' then the chances are they're 'all yours'.

That makes perfect sense!

It annoys me that Shamanism is at times equated with having schizophrenia – but yeah, that is the kind of stuff one is dealing with.

Haven’t read this article as yet, but at a glance it looks interesting:
https://anthrosource.onlinelibrary.w....10.3.02a00030

Looked up the word ‘subconscious’ in the article but couldn’t find one …
A person once defined schizophrenia as stuff arising from subconscious without a filter.
Maybe.

I don’t generally ‘hear’ voices as such. Only, for example – as I am waiting for a friend to arrive at appointed time - but an hour passes & I’m thinking that perhaps she doesn’t come … so then I ‘tune into the void’ maybe one could say with my open question ….. let go of it, forget it and lie down.

Then all of a sudden (as my subconscious ‘wakes me up’ with its answer) ….. I actually hear her cough (like a real outside sound) and then ‘hear’ her thoughts in my head …. “I hope sentient won’t be angry I arrive this late” …
So I get up – knowing she is about to arrive and 5 mins. or so later she does.
And get her cough and her thoughts verified etc.
I always like to verify things ….. because it is a bitava up-in-the-air twilight zone …. and your mind doesn’t know till it knows it isn’t making it all up.

*

There has been a lot of talk about entering into non-thought states lately on the forum – but if one is clairsentient … clairvoyant, clairaudient etc. etc. then one knows just how clear-in-the-mind one has to be and how neutral, empty and how mindful of ones thoughts.

Clairsentient … clairvoyant, clairaudient sensitivity or openness can get one into trouble even without 'mild' schizophrenia– so I learned in a hard way not be a ‘volunteer’ and only answer the ‘calls’ initiated by the Spirit Link.

Then again – the more one tunes into Spirit – the more clairsentient … clairvoyant, clairaudient etc. etc. one becomes ….. *sigh*

*

@Greenslade

I understand what you are saying and hear you. It's still important to know what medications they are on, their history with medications and what they are using recreationally. I'd rather know more information on who we are talking about and their condition.

I did say it's not meant to be the only approach to treatment. Knowing what spiritual solutions we are talking about will help. What you are saying sounds like over engaging the mind rather than the spiritual solutions itself. Various forms of meditation, grounding, yoga etc. helps with overall balance, is part of self care and I don't see as an issue.

Referring to utopian his posts are uplifting, overall positive. He has shared how spirituality has been a benefit to his mental health.

I've already said what I think, if there's change or more to include that would add value to the conversation I will definitely do so.

I feel for people with schizophrenia and have a lot of admiration, compassion and respect towards them.

Originally Posted by sentient

It annoys me that Shamanism is at times equated with having schizophrenia – but yeah, that is the kind of stuff one is dealing with.

I mentioned shamanism to show how they saw value in what the person had to say and was experiencing which I admired.



If we are looking to help certain members I would suggest an inquiry to them personally instead of talking about them. Inquire to rule out possibilities before assuming causes

And in appreciation to utopian AMEN and Hallelu! lol

[FallingLeaves]

personally I think most people 'hear voices' it is just the voices are saying things they want to hear and they mistake the voices for their own selves... you only get into trouble with this when the voices are going against yourself and/or society so most people never learn the difference between 'themselves' and 'other'.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by lejonjus

I mentioned shamanism to show how they saw value in what the person had to say and was experiencing which I admired.



If we are looking to help certain members I would suggest an inquiry to them personally instead of talking about them. Inquire to rule out possibilities before assuming causes.

And in appreciation to utopian AMEN and Hallelu! lol

I would be surprised if spirituality is the only approach to treatment. What I see happening in the clinical field is mental health disorders being used to discredit or disvalue what the person is sharing or experiencing. Disregarding their value and soul's process. I mentioned in another thread relating to schizophrenia how historically with certain tribes/shamanism their is value and spiritual significance to what they are experiencing and is not treated only as a disfunction.

Ok. Sorry – I had not read your earlier comment ^ so I wasn’t responding to your post, only in general.

In a shamanic culture, especially in the olden days, it was normal for people to talk to their dead, be telepathic, have all kinds of these clair -this and that experiences in many and varied forms.

But they were/are always “Sanity-of-Earth” functional ...... as “other dimensionality” and “this dimensionality” are interdependent – so to speak – they reflect and validate one another.

Dysfunction would stand out like a sore thumb & I don’t know – I am not a healer, but I assume the healer would try to get to the bottom of it and “see” – “whence the dysfunction was born”.

*

[Brian100]

Okay you hear 1 or 2.

1. Thought injected by bad spirits. To think bad things.

2. To hear a scream in your ear from a horrible lady just before you fall asleep.. . not normal . It means they want in.

Say you hear them during the day-- your brain either lack of vitamins or you have a spirit inside your body now.

You can try #1 (the vitamins). If it still happens its #2 (spirit got you).



---------------Creepy example of hearing these voices---------------------------------------------
The voices talk to you like the man who had a woman's face on the back of his head.

I'll dig up the creep show on youtube. . . Edward Mandrake?


youtube: copy and paste + watch)

Edward the Damned (official short film release)

Its scary as (*&*.

Originally Posted by blackraven

Excellent post, Greenslade!

Thank you, much appreciated.