God & I AM & the difference between them.

[Honza]

This complicated issue about the difference between God & I AM remains relevant in my heart and mind. To me they are just not the same thing. Sure, God can *say* I AM but He remains beyond that definition.

I think Christ understood that. He called Himself the Son. He allowed God to remain greater than Himself.

The trouble is that people take I AM and claim that they are God. Anybody can do that. Just say I AM God. In a sense that is true.

Like the difference between self love, and loving others. One needs to put oneself to the side a bit to love someone else. The I AM stands aside and one loves YOU.

Gnostics do this all the time. They love themselves and they claim I AM but somehow they never become God Himself. Like Sathya Sai Baba or Krishna. They claim they are God Himself, yet they never quite become absolute. God remains greater.

Christ knew God is greater than Him. I know God is greater than me.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Honza

The trouble is that people take I AM and claim that they are God. Anybody can do that. Just say I AM God. In a sense that is true.

Gnostics do this all the time. They love themselves and they claim I AM but somehow they never become God Himself. Like Sathya Sai Baba or Krishna. They claim they are God Himself, yet they never quite become absolute. God remains greater.

Christ knew God is greater than Him. I know God is greater than me.

Before I discuss , let me clarify few things .
1. I am practicing Hindu yet a Christian in the sense that i love/adore Christ and Christian values (which are substantially similar to those in Hinduism) .
2. Though I present theological views and its similarities , I dont intend to disrespect any theologies in my remotest dreams .

The "I Am" statements by Christs were one of the many reasons for His crucifixion as it hurt Jewish sensitivities. Here are brief examples of "I am" statements by Christ.

1. I Am the Bread of Life: (John 6).

2. I Am the Light of the World: (John 8).

3. I Am the Resurrection and the Life: (John 11).

4. I Am the Way, Truth, and Life: (John 14).

Though some may object to such statements , I certainly do not if its coming from a person deep sense of real feeling . Same way Krishna too has many utterances in Chapter 11 of Bhagavad Geeta . Only in this chapter in entire Geeta the writer describes Him as 'Yogeshwar' and not as Krishna (to indicate universe / 'Father' in Christian theology speaking through Him) . So if any gnostics utter such things without an iota of deceit and with real feeling there is no cause for concern .

Further You can review Trinity doctrine in Christianity to consider 'Son' also as God . So does Hinduism do it through doctrine Avatar (God incarnation ) . So even in Hinduism there is clear difference between Sagun Sakar (one with form and characteristics like Son in Christianity ) and Nirgun Nirakar (Formless and one without characteristics like Father in Christianity ).If you see here all these people themselves were not hell bent to prove/claim themselves God . It was others who proclaimed them to be God and most of the time after their physical life span has ended on this planet.

So if someone claims to be God .he/she really is not because it contradicts the very nature of God - very active yet extremely silent , hidden and disguised in myriad forms. It is true we re particle of God and have similarities with God in spiritual sense yet to come up with that claim in real world is mostly a deceit except in the aforesaid genuine cases. We differ tremendously with aforesaid examples in our spiritual experiences intensity/frequency/continuity/speed /subtletyetc.

I know Sathya sai baba as Godman but definitely he is not an incarnation of God and Hindus definitely dont perceive him to be so . May be some foolish/selfish devotees for any weird reasons may promote such Godhood. Talking and comparing Krishna and satya sai baba is not proper.

[Miss Hepburn]

For me personally - it is simple:
Is the sunbeam or ray of the sun the actual Sun? No.
Is a drop of the ocean the entire ocean. No.
Is the essence of the ocean and the sun within the drop and the sunbeam? Yes.

In an NDE interview a woman said it like :
Your Higher Self is like a rain cloud.... we are the rain that falls all over experiencing things on earth.
God is above the rain cloud as a huge Cloud....experiencing it all.
The Higher self can reveal itself to the rain drops whenever it feels like ...same with the huge cloud, God.

Are the rain drops actually God? No, but like the drop and the sunbeam ---we can experience that we are part of this Greater ''Thing''.
And that feels like we are God, believe me I know!

I have a friend that insists we are all God...well, sure, of course, (she is so confused she has become an atheist now).
I say to her: Yes we have God within us and we can get glimpses of the immensity of that..''But, until you can create and maintain Galaxies ----
I don't consider you ''GOD Himself."
THO, we have been given godly qualities and powers!!
(I am discovering!!!)


Loved your post, Hitesh.

[Honza]

The truth is that I call myself God from time to time, but I do know that God is bigger than me. It can be quite reassuring to claim "I am God". It can also be reassuring to claim "God is God". My opinion is that whoever reaches God and becomes 'one' with Him, God will always be bigger.

God is infinite. Anybody within God in finite. My opinion is that Christ, Krishna etc. are finite. Reality is always greater.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Honza

The truth is that I call myself God from time to time, but I do know that God is bigger than me. It can be quite reassuring to claim "I am God". It can also be reassuring to claim "God is God".

God is the 'I am' in ALL that can proclaim 'I am' .- Omnipresent.
Imo....

[Honza]

Originally Posted by sky

God is the 'I am' in ALL that can proclaim 'I am' .- Omnipresent.
Imo....

I agree. But should anyone claim 'I Am'....then God will always be bigger. I have noticed that nobody actually seems to agree with anyone else. Everyone has their own point of view. Christ had His own point of view...which some disagree with etc. The WHOLE I Am is always disputing itself.

Originally Posted by Honza

This complicated issue about the difference between God & I AM remains relevant in my heart and mind. To me they are just not the same thing. Sure, God can *say* I AM but He remains beyond that definition.
me.

Honza,

Everyone must contemplate the definition of the I AM. For me it can only be dynamic….never static. There can be no picture of it because that would be to freeze it in time. Therefore I believe it to mean the continuous flow of God’s love…….and this is eternal life. It is akin to electricity which provides power and light. Or akin to the blood that continuously flows through the body. But much different from electricity which is dependent on the death of something to produce energy. The I AM can flow through us and give us life and we can pass that to others……but we are never the original source.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

For me personally - it is simple:
Is the sunbeam or ray of the sun the actual Sun? No.
Is a drop of the ocean the entire ocean. No.
THO, we have been given godly qualities and powers!!
(I am discovering!!!)

Loved your post, Hitesh.

Miss H very well explained with analogies . And thanks for appreciating the post.
Very few outside forums like this can really understand this .

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Honza

My opinion is that whoever reaches God and becomes 'one' with Him, God will always be bigger.

God is infinite. Anybody within God in finite. My opinion is that Christ, Krishna etc. are finite. Reality is always greater.

Completely agree with your contention and claim . Even theologians who propounded trinity doctrine or doctrine of God incarnation in Hinduism would completely agree with what you say . The only reason these theologians recommend and preach Godhood in a a divine person is that it's very easy for people (especially laymen) to know and learn about spirituality without going through lot of books/experiments. And these theologians know the power of spirituality is in its practice and actions than in shallow thoughts and hollow speeches . So for this very reasons these theologians recommend Godhood in such divine person to make the life of genuine seeker extremely easy.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Honza

I have noticed that nobody actually seems to agree with anyone else. Everyone has their own point of view. Christ had His own point of view...which some disagree with etc. The WHOLE I Am is always disputing itself.

I'd expand a little on the disputing. Individual points of conscious awareness or the "I AM" imbedded and living as physical beings in individual bodes, have differing levels of intelligence and awareness and understanding manifesting. So in the disputes are wrong views and right views and activities as I believe truths are absolute and seeing such is dependent on the level of ones awareness and intelligence, understanding etc. So it would not be disputing itself, disputes would naturally manifest in the imperfect points of awareness as a means of raising awareness in itself, in the individual points imbedded in bodies. In the disputes, the struggles between right and wrong, truth and falseness, is potential growth in awareness and understanding.