From the Foundation to the Apex

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

Ok, but gotama didn't say anything about it and there is nothing like that in the Pali canon. The Zen and the Tibetans have another thing I don't know anything about. But nothing about the heart opening in metta sutta. You'd think if that was the thang it would say it... and if it was an emphasis of the philosophy it would be all over the suttas. It isn't. But I really do understand the appeal.

Metta meditation is a practice which is focused on ' Opening ' the heart and cultivating compassion for ourselves and others. The error you are making is searching for the actual words ' Opening the heart '....

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

Metta meditation is a practice which is focused on ' Opening ' the heart and cultivating compassion for ourselves and others. The error you are making is searching for the actual words ' Opening the heart '....

I already knew there's nothing about opening the heart in the Pali Canon, so it's a bit of stretch to say I made that mistake. I'm familiar with metta sutta and surrounding philosophy, and indeed it's about compassion for self and others - but is it actually true, or is agitation inciting derision and hard feelings?

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

I already knew there's nothing about opening the heart in the Pali Canon, so it's a bit of stretch to say I made that mistake. I'm familiar with metta sutta and surrounding philosophy, and indeed it's about compassion for self and others - but is it actually true, or is agitation inciting derision and hard feelings?

I have also at times missed the wood for the trees....

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Gem

Indeed, breath awareness involves intent, and it has purposes:
1) To bring attention to the actuality 'as it is'
2) To calm the mind of it's agitations
3) To hone the sensitivity of the mind for acute and subtle perception

We have discussed this many times. You romanticize your view of meditation and assign some negative to some other means.

How you teach breath meditation is now how the Buddha taught breath meditation. Breath meditation isn't the only means of meditation that the Buddha taught.

I don't do mantra meditation. I did start off using "I Am" but that changed over time.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Gem

The validation I rely on is Not 'because a teacher said therefore it is right'. The congruence of my explanation allows people to discern for themselves: does it seem to add up, or is it contradictory? If it adds up, is congruent, makes sense, then discern merit on that basis. If it contradicts itself and seems senseless, then discern it's nonsense on that basis.

No, it means you have had some success and then think you know it all.

If you are going to teach buddhism teach what buddhism teaches.

If you are wanting to share YOUR view of Buddhism just say so and everyone would leave you alone.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Gem

Once the acceleration in purification begins in mindfulness, you will not want it to speed up or become more. If anything, you'd be wishing it would let up a bit. The difficulty in mindfulness is not not in making it happen, but in not reacting to what is happening. However, in practice we find ourselves reaching a point where we can't remain even minded, and we start reacting compulsively to what's going on. The determination to not react to what's happening makes one a little bit stronger, and take more than they could before, so things speed up up again, and you just try your best to keep an even keel... but you reach a limitation and become compelled by reactivity again, but also became a little bit stabler in the process. There is no reason to try to speed things up because you desire more. There is only an understanding that the desire/aversion reactive dynamic is the 'resistance' that both initiates impurity and impedes purification.


The main clarification I need to make is regardless of how blocked up you are, there is no judgment. Judgment is nothing but aversion toward your blockedness. It's more like a fact: 'I see I'm all blocked up'. No reaction, no volition, not important, simply the truth (as it happens to be for you). Having noticed that's the way it is, resume feeling the breath.

Typically energy practices are done before meditation.

Energy practices make the meditation practice deeper.

What is speeding up or slowing down with mindfulness? If you are doing the practice whatever is arising is arising be it fast or slow. You are observing, that observing should be very pleasurable. There should be no thoughts of speeding up or slowing down. If so you are lost in thoughts and not observing, you are not doing the practice.

During the day if you are trying to practice mindfulness and you get caught up don't worry about it. It happens, instead work on letting it go. You are going to get caught up but then work on letting it pass as quick as you can. Work on observing or as I say letting it all go.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Gem

This is going to sound strange and will contradict the 'standard line' in spirituality. Since this 'opening the heart' thing has come up, ironically, with contention, I thought I talk about that in context with mindfulness.

Mindfuness relates directly with 4 noble truths 4NT and is supported by the wider philosophy. I'm not going full philosophical here because it's, like. whoosh over the head. I'm going direct to what's actually going on with oneself.

Are you just making stuff up?

You just made up some fake heart practice, assigned negatives to it, to justify your belief system.

Please stop, accept it wasn't something you weren't aware of and move on.

[jonesboy]

Sorry Gem for busting in on your thread.

I will stay away and let you continue.

All the best.

[running]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Sorry Gem for busting in on your thread.

I will stay away and let you continue.

All the best.

haven't seen you around here. hope you been well!

[Gem]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

We have discussed this many times. You romanticize your view of meditation and assign some negative to some other means.

How you teach breath meditation is now how the Buddha taught breath meditation. Breath meditation isn't the only means of meditation that the Buddha taught.

I don't do mantra meditation. I did start off using "I Am" but that changed over time.

What meditations did Buddha teach? Where are they referenced in the Pali Canon? How do they fit in with the wider philosophy?

If you have an argument to make regarding what I say, you have to point out my contradictions, but if this long thread is coherent and congruent, then you have no room to argue.

When you read what I or anyone says on a topic you are supposed to discern: does it contradict itself, do the parts add up, is it consistent? If I can write in some detail about the topic for thousands of words and remain consistent, it's obvious I understand what I'm saying.

That's doesn't mean I'm right. It merely means if someone can go into detail in an orderly way and remain consistent there might be something to it. The intellectual understanding of I what I say and how it all fits together is superficial compared to how it applies within yourself, so the thrust of the thread is to know what you are doing. Hence what I say isn't right or wrong. It's 'what's happening'.

You don't control it and have no influence over it, you don't like it, so react adversely and generate an adversarial mind-state. You'll learn more in a few seconds by noticing that for yourself than you will by reading a thousand pages of my philosophical narrative.