Getting to know youself

[Gem]

The first thing I should say is Buddhism is about the truth as it is for everyone. The religion, with its discourses, symbols, rituals and costumes is merely an aside to the universality of the truth.

For example, if you want to know the truth of what your breath feels like there is only one way to find out, and you already know how. The same applies to self discovery.

So, that's how I'll OP, and I look forward to what you have to say.

[Ciona]

And I enjoyed....might even 'convert' now ;)

Facetious....pretty sure you knew that already, but people don't seem to be getting my sarcasm lately.

Hope youre good Gem

But I will think more on your post as I always do.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Gem

The first thing I should say is Buddhism is about the truth as it is for everyone. The religion, with its discourses, symbols, rituals and costumes is merely an aside to the universality of the truth.

For example, if you want to know the truth of what your breath feels like there is only one way to find out, and you already know how. The same applies to self discovery.

So, that's how I'll OP, and I look forward to what you have to say.

I was working yesterday and struck up a chat with a quiet but friendly young woman. After the connection opened and I began talking with her, she then felt trust in me to share her own story and beliefs. She had been involved in spirituality, then various healing modalities and her latest venture and support was with a Pentecostal church group. I shared with her quite openly about my experiences and gave her an insight into my world and many experiences. I shared with her where it all brought me too in myself. ‘To just be myself’ in peace of everything. Describing to her the state of becoming an emptiness in all that revealing, then moving into the feeling of completeness and being true to myself more authentically. She listened closely and even though her beliefs were much different to mine. We found common ground, trust, connection and sameness. In the end I realized that I was offering her the awareness that even as I might ‘need’ any of those previous tools I once used to grow through, I’m not attached to them. I explained in the passage of opening through those streams, I am able to be more present with others just as they are. Just as they believe. And regardless of where I’ve been, what tool or belief I might have once held, it all integrates into me as the source that stands there present as the shared space will be. She listened, smiled and took in what I shared. Being yourself and aware your realising yourself in everything you reach for, practice through, believe in, you realize you can’t know this fully until your no longer seeking to find yourself. Once you know and feel there is nothing more but yourself, you shift from outside to inside and really you know it’s the only place to be.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Gem

The first thing I should say is Buddhism is about the truth as it is for everyone. The religion, with its discourses, symbols, rituals and costumes is merely an aside to the universality of the truth.

For example, if you want to know the truth of what your breath feels like there is only one way to find out, and you already know how. The same applies to self discovery.

So, that's how I'll OP, and I look forward to what you have to say.

I would call that kind of truth an opinion, at most a belief, not a "truth". By definition "truth" is unique.

To me "the truth of what your breath feels like" is a just a way of complicating something simple. A feeling is something subjective; I wouldn't call it a truth.

It isn't my intention to pick apart your post, just commenting on your statements, which seem to propose a basis of discussion.

Also, maybe you can explain what you mean by "self-discovery", because people seem to mean different things by that, and it isn't a simple thing to strip yourself of your beliefs, conscious and unconscious that define your perspective of what reality is. As we filter the reality we perceive, our findings may be quite distorted.

Self discovery and truth,i have found with addiction,

But more self discoveries and truth with nicotine addiction.

Short periods of sobriety and relapsing back and forth,

I have separated the dark side from my light side.

It is my protector,it grounds me,clears bad energy and alters states.

I am now 101% in light,but also see the dark side.

Where the dark side once ruled the roost,it has now taken a back seat.

I can see it,it can't take over light.


Some people call the dark side,the ego,it is just misunderstood and misguided.


Power is the truth,the dark side is an unformidable force,

If left to it's own devices.


Self inquiries,pursuit of truth,suffering,testing will,is unlocking,

Purge,

Alchemy,

The lion eats the sun(son),

Becoming the power of one.

A formidable force.


Suffering,pushing the limits,testing and finding inner strength and quest for knowledge and self healing bares the fruits,

By being a Wounded self healer.: )


Ps.Being stuck on one religion,is not the way.

It leads self,to being stuck in one direction.

A faith in God,the universe,the higher power and doing good,is all that is required.

Not knowing,but knowing by faith within.

That's the magic we are all born with,

And the magic of not knowing that makes life magical.: )


Send and sending blessings from the universe.: )

[Gem]

Originally Posted by inavalan

I would call that kind of truth an opinion, at most a belief, not a "truth". By definition "truth" is unique.

You must have missed the point because I illustrated the point by referring to what your breath feels like, and knowing what that feels like is not an opinion.

To me "the truth of what your breath feels like" is a just a way of complicating something simple. A feeling is something subjective; I wouldn't call it a truth.

If you are aware of what your breath feels like, you are completely wihhout doubt that it feel like this. I don't mean to over state any importance of breath awareness - just use it to illustrate the means by which you 'find out' is by paying attention as also pertains to self discovery.

It isn't my intention to pick apart your post, just commenting on your statements, which seem to propose a basis of discussion.

Also, maybe you can explain what you mean by "self-discovery", because people seem to mean different things by that, and it isn't a simple thing to strip yourself of your beliefs, conscious and unconscious that define your perspective of what reality is. As we filter the reality we perceive, our findings may be quite distorted.

That is a nuanced subject but I split it into two categories: the psychological self and the presence of awareness.

Self awareness mainly means you are consciously aware of what is going on with yourself psychologically. In Western paradigms we've constructed a mind body duality, so we model psychological activity as independent from physicality, but upon investigation we find that psychology is affected by physicality and vice versa, so we could imagine it wholistically as a single phenomena. We react psychologically to physically experience and such reactions elicit physical responses, to which we react psychologically, which generates physical response, and around it goes.

Lets just say that is the psycho-physical experience or the mind-matter phenomena, and we might be conscious of that to some degree, but there are things happening on more subtle scales which we are not conscious of due to limitations of our perceptive ability. With practice one can improve their perceptive ability and become conscious of subtler nuances of their mind-body experience, and meditation is what we'd call such a practice.

There is the second category: the presence of awareness, but it defies description. However, it's quite obvious that awareness is present, so it is obviously possible for attention to notice that and watch. That has been called 'self inquiry' by spiritual teachers such as Ramana (who was more a Hindu than a Buddhist, but religious background or lack thereof is irrelevant).

[Gem]

Originally Posted by JustBe

I was working yesterday and struck up a chat with a quiet but friendly young woman. After the connection opened and I began talking with her, she then felt trust in me to share her own story and beliefs. She had been involved in spirituality, then various healing modalities and her latest venture and support was with a Pentecostal church group. I shared with her quite openly about my experiences and gave her an insight into my world and many experiences. I shared with her where it all brought me too in myself. ‘To just be myself’ in peace of everything. Describing to her the state of becoming an emptiness in all that revealing, then moving into the feeling of completeness and being true to myself more authentically. She listened closely and even though her beliefs were much different to mine. We found common ground, trust, connection and sameness. In the end I realized that I was offering her the awareness that even as I might ‘need’ any of those previous tools I once used to grow through, I’m not attached to them. I explained in the passage of opening through those streams, I am able to be more present with others just as they are. Just as they believe. And regardless of where I’ve been, what tool or belief I might have once held, it all integrates into me as the source that stands there present as the shared space will be. She listened, smiled and took in what I shared. Being yourself and aware your realising yourself in everything you reach for, practice through, believe in, you realize you can’t know this fully until your no longer seeking to find yourself. Once you know and feel there is nothing more but yourself, you shift from outside to inside and really you know it’s the only place to be.

There is a difference between seeking and just looking. I try to talk about meditation, which is really just looking. Indeed you have to stop seeking, stop everything to really look. It is easy to see this by simply looking to be consciously aware of what this experience is like just as it is now. It's not like we do it on purpose as such, because it's true that awareness is here now and 'this' is the actuality of the experience. So if the meditation isn;t happening now, I'm not talking about something which is not here and now and will be here later on. It's not a complicated truth when the truth is 'this is what it's like'. No teacher can instruct you on how it is done. We can only talk about it and follow along on the inside and it just so happens that you notice and then you suddenly understand. When you stop and notice. So we go through a process where we start to notice what we habitually tend to do and cease doing it as a function of being aware. As an example. If you feel your body from toes up to head, and at some place along the way you notice you have tense muscles, you don't have to try to relax them, the unconscious activity is made conscious and it stops automatically not because you try to stop, but because you cease trying... to maintain that tension.


If you can be content with the world 'as it is' and yourself 'as you are'... then you'd understand the foibles of most of us. Most of us experience a deep sense of discontent, which is why we seek to fill that empty hole of disatisfaction. This is what I see as an aversion to that feeling with a craving to feel something else, which according to Buddhist philosophy is the fundamental issue of bondage.


It means to understand yourself as you are, and not try to become 'something else' such as enlightened being or a child of Christ or whatever. Just you as you are with all the problems and issues, and observe the whole person just as you are. People have argued this and rebuke, You are saying you should just stay the miserable sod that you are now. I didn't say that, though. I didn't say you stay the same. I merely imply that the transformation is in awareness right now in the transformation of reality as it actually happens.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Gem

You must have missed the point because I illustrated the point by referring to what your breath feels like, and knowing what that feels like is not an opinion.




If you are aware of what your breath feels like, you are completely wihhout doubt that it feel like this. I don't mean to over state any importance of breath awareness - just use it to illustrate the means by which you 'find out' is by paying attention as also pertains to self discovery.



That is a nuanced subject but I split it into two categories: the psychological self and the presence of awareness.

Self awareness mainly means you are consciously aware of what is going on with yourself psychologically. In Western paradigms we've constructed a mind body duality, so we model psychological activity as independent from physicality, but upon investigation we find that psychology is affected by physicality and vice versa, so we could imagine it wholistically as a single phenomena. We react psychologically to physically experience and such reactions elicit physical responses, to which we react psychologically, which generates physical response, and around it goes.

Lets just say that is the psycho-physical experience or the mind-matter phenomena, and we might be conscious of that to some degree, but there are things happening on more subtle scales which we are not conscious of due to limitations of our perceptive ability. With practice one can improve their perceptive ability and become conscious of subtler nuances of their mind-body experience, and meditation is what we'd call such a practice.

There is the second category: the presence of awareness, but it defies description. However, it's quite obvious that awareness is present, so it is obviously possible for attention to notice that and watch. That has been called 'self inquiry' by spiritual teachers such as Ramana (who was more a Hindu than a Buddhist, but religious background or lack thereof is irrelevant).

You mentioned Ramana ... Coincidentally, today it was the first time I read some answers he gave. As with other sages, people asked from their system of beliefs perspective, and went away with their distortions of the sage's answer.

For example,

Maharshi says:
"In fact God is none other than the Self.";

then later Yogananda asks:
"Why does God permit suffering in the world? Should He not with His omnipotence do away with it at one stroke and ordain the universal realisation of God?"

Anyway, from my perspective, and it seems Ramana's too, there is no physical to react to.

D.: What is the best way of living?

M.: It differs according as one is a Jnani [knower] or ajnani. A Jnani does not find anything different or separate from the Self. All are in the Self. It is wrong to imagine that there is the world, that there is a body in it and that you dwell in the body. If the Truth is known, the universe and what is beyond it will be found to be only in the Self. The outlook differs according to the sight of the person. The sight is from the eye. The eye must be located somewhere. If you are seeing with the gross eyes you find others gross. If with subtle eyes (i.e., the mind) others appear subtle. If the eye becomes the Self, the Self being infinite, the eye is infinite. There is nothing else to see different from the Self.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by inavalan

You mentioned Ramana ... Coincidentally, today it was the first time I read some answers he gave. As with other sages, people asked from their system of beliefs perspective, and went away with their distortions of the sage's answer.

For example,

Maharshi says:
"In fact God is none other than the Self.";

then later Yogananda asks:
"Why does God permit suffering in the world? Should He not with His omnipotence do away with it at one stroke and ordain the universal realisation of God?"

Anyway, from my perspective, and it seems Ramana's too, there is no physical to react to.

D.: What is the best way of living?

M.: It differs according as one is a Jnani [knower] or ajnani. A Jnani does not find anything different or separate from the Self. All are in the Self. It is wrong to imagine that there is the world, that there is a body in it and that you dwell in the body. If the Truth is known, the universe and what is beyond it will be found to be only in the Self. The outlook differs according to the sight of the person. The sight is from the eye. The eye must be located somewhere. If you are seeing with the gross eyes you find others gross. If with subtle eyes (i.e., the mind) others appear subtle. If the eye becomes the Self, the Self being infinite, the eye is infinite. There is nothing else to see different from the Self.

I have no idea what they are talking about and suspect they're making it up as they go along. For example, why imagine there's a world or a body when its there to be experienced? And how does the eye become the self? That's just talking nonsense.

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by ant

Ps. Being stuck on one religion, is not the way.

It leads self, to being stuck in one direction.

A faith in God, the universe, the higher power and doing good, is all that is required.

Not knowing, but knowing by faith within.

That's the magic we are all born with,

And the magic of not knowing that makes life magical.: )

Send and sending blessings from the universe.: )

Beautiful words and ideas.