Deep dive on 4 Noble Truth philosphy

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

In Buddhism they would use Dukkha rather than Suffering, hence.... There is Dukkha.

I'm not particularly concerned with the semantics...

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

I'm not particularly concerned with the semantics...

Buddha said that grasping the Dharma wrongly was like grabbing a snake by the wrong end. And “Their wrong grasp of those teachings will lead to their long-term harm & suffering.”

[sentient]

From Dukha to Sukha ….

Ok. Now I seem to be a “take refuge in emptiness” evangelist ….

Buddhists classify all kinds of Dukhas.
The first being “Impermanence”.
- the pain that follows when we are trying to make something that is impermanent – permanent; - in order to create certainty out of uncertainty ……. well …… so as to secure the sense of the assumed separately existing self really ….

But! Taking refuge in emptiness – which decentralizes the ego into a kind of fluid ‘interbeing’ ……
How exciting is life when everything in the relative/conventional reality is constantly in the state of flux so that anything can be anything at any time!

And how great is not-knowing, when instead of holding onto and superimposing pre-meditated concepts upon phenomena one can let the phenomena itself display “what is” and be constantly surprised left, right and centre.

Impermanence – that is a Sukha feast, not Dukha!

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Originally Posted by Gem

I'm not particularly concerned with the semantics...

It's not semantics. Even a happy person finds a gap, a hole in their life, something 'not quite' there, something not completely satisfactory.

That is what dukkha refers to - not just outright suffering. "basic dissatisfactoriness"

And it is a common misinterpretation.

Of course most of us use food, internet, TV and computers to dumb it down so there's that too.

jl

[sentient]

Emptiness as one's Refuge continued ...

It seems the centralized ego is a fixed address.
Decentralized ego has no fixed address.

Heh. I was going to equate the alive liveness of a decentralized ego, the free flowing ‘interbeing’ with ‘skywalker’.
Then came upon this Trungpa quote:

The bad news is you’re falling through the air, nothing to hang on to, no parachute. The good news is, there is no ground.

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Daikini:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdmN6CvzsMI

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[Gem]

Originally Posted by janielee

It's not semantics. Even a happy person finds a gap, a hole in their life, something 'not quite' there, something not completely satisfactory.

That is what dukkha refers to - not just outright suffering. "basic dissatisfactoriness"

And it is a common misinterpretation.

Of course most of us use food, internet, TV and computers to dumb it down so there's that too.

jl

I just use 'suffering', others use another term. 'I have used 'dukkha' in this thread as well as 'agitation', 'perterbed', and maybe others I can't remember. Those semantics don't concern me.

The basic thing with happiness is pleasure doesn't bring lasting happiness because the feeling is temporary, but the metta wish, 'be happy', is another kettle if fish, so as usual, there are nuances.

[Gem]

The main issue is thinking what Dukkha 'really means' and so on, when the diversity of words that imply distress, discontent, and so forth are all adequate descriptors. Seeing that 'suffering' is a common interpretation, there is nothing wrong with it. It is just a word which implies the reactive dynamic between aversions and desires that disturbs peace of mind. The commonality between various suitable words is they all refer to some degree of psychological reactivity, which we can only really know because we can see it of ourselves.

However, a more in depth examination, a closer look, reveals greater nuance, and you can learn a lot about yourself that way. That you react all the time, are highly distracted, wild minded, have frequent malicious thoughts, carry grudges, experience envy and other such things regarded as 'unskilled states'. Why unskilled? Because it's wild, uncontrolled and you can't stop even if you wanted to.

It's easy to think I'm not talking about NT1 because I'm speaking directly to experience rather than philosophising abstractly. And it's not mysterious or mystical; it merely states the obvious, albeit often overlooked.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sentient

Emptiness as one's Refuge continued ...

It seems the centralized ego is a fixed address.
Decentralized ego has no fixed address.

Heh. I was going to equate the alive liveness of a decentralized ego, the free flowing ‘interbeing’ with ‘skywalker’.
Then came upon this Trungpa quote:


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Daikini:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdmN6CvzsMI

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All this iconography is ludicrous to me, Buddha chicks with swords and such, but that's the sect's iconography, and I have nothing to do with the sect. It's just that it is not necessary. It doesn't apply universally, so it simply can't be considered relevant as far as dhamma is concerned. Entertaining, though. I liked it.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by Gem

All this iconography is ludicrous to me,

Had it made sense to you would have freaked me out.

Originally Posted by Gem

Buddha chicks with swords and such, but that's the sect's iconography, and I have nothing to do with the sect. It's just that it is not necessary. It doesn't apply universally, so it simply can't be considered relevant as far as dhamma is concerned. Entertaining, though. I liked it.

Isn’t it great though that we can find our assemblage-point-of-awareness or the ‘territory’ we find ourselves in - reflected in the teachings of one of the various schools of Buddhism.

This reflection (validation) isn’t necessary – but when you take “Emptiness as your Refuge”, accept your aloness in the face of it all - you do step into an uncharted territory in a way … and it makes one grateful to see that these Buddhists have been “there” too and have actual teachings about it.

I suppose when we do not accept our aloness in the face of infinity and if we do have insecurities, then we seek to secure our circumstances – try to choreograph/control others to behave/dance to the tune of our ideals how we would like the world to be ... to make us feel secure and validated. But this will only lead to further suffering or unsatisfactoriness ....

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My own comment on the video commentary about Daikini.
Pig is the symbol of ignorance, always looking at the ground (dualistic conventional, relative reality) never looking up to the sky (ultimate reality).
Daikini now having the pig’s head on the top of her head gives the pig a panoramic view

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[Gem]

Originally Posted by sentient

Had it made sense to you would have freaked me out.

Isn’t it great though that we can find our assemblage-point-of-awareness or the ‘territory’ we find ourselves in - reflected in the teachings of one of the various schools of Buddhism.

Yea the different schools teaching different things, and that's, like, their jam. It's a sectarian peculiarity which is really irrelevant to dhamma.

This reflection (validation) isn’t necessary – but when you take “Emptiness as your Refuge”, accept your aloness in the face of it all - you do step into an uncharted territory in a way … and it makes one grateful to see that these Buddhists have been “there” too and have actual teachings about it.

I think they merely repeat what they were told. I reckon if they had been there they'd not be telling tall tales about Buddha sword girls etc, so if they talk about these imaginary things, I assume it's all a parade and don't get involved.

I suppose when we do not accept our aloness in the face of infinity and if we do have insecurities, then we seek to secure our circumstances – try to choreograph/control others to behave/dance to the tune of our ideals how we would like the world to be ... to make us feel secure and validated. But this will only lead to further suffering or unsatisfactoriness ....

That makes sense

My own comment on the video commentary about Daikini.
Pig is the symbol of ignorance, always looking at the ground (dualistic conventional, relative reality) never looking up to the sky (ultimate reality).
Daikini now having the pig’s head on the top of her head gives the pig a panoramic view

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I wonder why adults are so interested in fairy tales .