The 23rd Psalm - An Absolute Spiritual Masterpiece

Originally Posted by SimpleMan

I agree, "Heaven" is also a state of mind but this takes place when the Holy Spirit comes into you, in other words, when Gods comes into you and lives inside you.I agree, there are people who do evil and suffer because of it, we should pray for them, but also there are people who do evil and don't even care, they do it intentionally to mislead people from the truth.

Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

There tons of testimonies with people going in hell and being saved by Jesus, I don't think they lie when their whole mindset is changed after such a horrible event.

I believe that God is already inside of you and always has been, it is more a matter of us coming to know this. It is fear and hate that block us from realizing this. Heaven and hell, like any other "place", are created by and exist only within you. Space and time are not independent things outside of our consciousness, but rather created by consciousness within the mind. We all create our own individual space-time. We can learn to fill it with love and create a heaven, or fill it with fear and hate, and create our own hell.

And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Luke 17: 20-21

True, there are many who mislead others, sometimes intentionally so, and sometimes they fool themselves most of all. Sometimes they do so because they think they are actually doing them a favor. Sometimes they feel they have a right to do so, as they themselves have been misled in the past and suffered as a result. Sometimes they do so because it makes them feel powerful and helps to dampen the fear they live with, fear that arises from seeing the world as full of hate and enemies. Often they seek allies in a world they see as divided between good and evil, which they define as us and them. But I do believe, whether we see it or not, they all suffer. We all live in the world we create in our minds. Whether that world is a kingdom of heaven based on compassion, love and forgiveness for all, or a cold lonely place, based on fear and hatred of our enemies, depends on how well we see and understand God. Unfortunately, it is all to often those who go by such titles as Pastor, Preacher, or Father, that help us to create a kingdom based on the latter.

But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Mathhew 23:13

First take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. Mathhew 7:5

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by SimpleMan

The Word of God... If good works could have been the requirement to go to Heaven, then Jesus would have not been needed to come in this world.When I say "in vain" basically it means that no matter how many good works you do, you can't get to Heaven this way.It's like working to get a place there, God says that He gives this chance, to be with Him, as a gift to everyone who comes to Him.Of course, good works are a way to get closer to God because you act like He would act.

There are different ways to interpret the scriptures and on this subject Jesus himself says things that challenge it. For example he says 'the good man brings good out of his heart'. Now here is a problem for you
The idea a man can be good you disagree with. Now Jesus doesn't mean this man is perfect or without sin... but he is basically a good man
When I challenged this before I was told I was quoting out of context and Jesus is referring to an already saved Christian, but how can that be? Jesus is talking before his crucifixion
Jesus also says other similar things, for example praising the widow who placed all her money in the temple treasury, and the man who helped the Samaritan attacked by robbers, and so on..
So what I'm suggesting is it is too extreme a position to say that good works could for nothing, that is all. Faith and coming to know God are better, but to say they are everything, why does Jesus appear to contradict this?
If the answer is because Christian theology developed this idea later... then ok, but then we can question that theology. Paul pushed a more faith only approach, but then he was in battle against the Judaisers so emphasised that. I just think, systematic theology may be the enemy here in the end... maybe its a thing of this world.

Sky123
LOVE has NO religion....

I likey.

Can I use this saying? I swear I will give you all the credit.

[sky]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

I likey.

Can I use this saying? I swear I will give you all the credit.

No credit needed, just more loveeeeeeeeee

[SimpleMan]

Originally Posted by ketzer

I believe that God is already inside of you and always has been, it is more a matter of us coming to know this. It is fear and hate that block us from realizing this. Heaven and hell, like any other "place", are created by and exist only within you. Space and time are not independent things outside of our consciousness, but rather created by consciousness within the mind. We all create our own individual space-time. We can learn to fill it with love and create a heaven, or fill it with fear and hate, and create our own hell.



True, there are many who mislead others, sometimes intentionally so, and sometimes they fool themselves most of all. Sometimes they do so because they think they are actually doing them a favor. Sometimes they feel they have a right to do so, as they themselves have been misled in the past and suffered as a result. Sometimes they do so because it makes them feel powerful and helps to dampen the fear they live with, fear that arises from seeing the world as full of hate and enemies. Often they seek allies in a world they see as divided between good and evil, which they define as us and them. But I do believe, whether we see it or not, they all suffer. We all live in the world we create in our minds. Whether that world is a kingdom of heaven based on compassion, love and forgiveness for all, or a cold lonely place, based on fear and hatred of our enemies, depends on how well we see and understand God. Unfortunately, it is all to often those who go by such titles as Pastor, Preacher, or Father, that help us to create a kingdom based on the latter.

God says that His true believers are chosen before creation, so, He already knows who is for Him and who is not.Perception has a lot of power of our lives, but if we rise above our perception, who can't be the actual truth because it changes a lot, we may see the actual truth.You know, that expression "within you" is said that it's not the correct translation, I found out that it is actually "among you" or "in your midst", you really have to research for these things, I knew nothing.When I was a new age believer I used that verse a lot.Love alone is not the answer, I keep saying this, everybody talks about love but the world is still going down....

Much of the evil we see today in this world comes from suffering... you know, it's a continuous cycle, you abuse me, it changes me in a bad way, I abuse my children and so on... ( this is just an example ).We need God, on our own, we are not able to rise about our "mistakes" and people's mistakes, we can't, we have a long history of terrible things and even today it goes on and on....

Originally Posted by davidmartin

There are different ways to interpret the scriptures and on this subject Jesus himself says things that challenge it. For example he says 'the good man brings good out of his heart'. Now here is a problem for you
The idea a man can be good you disagree with. Now Jesus doesn't mean this man is perfect or without sin... but he is basically a good man
When I challenged this before I was told I was quoting out of context and Jesus is referring to an already saved Christian, but how can that be? Jesus is talking before his crucifixion
Jesus also says other similar things, for example praising the widow who placed all her money in the temple treasury, and the man who helped the Samaritan attacked by robbers, and so on..
So what I'm suggesting is it is too extreme a position to say that good works could for nothing, that is all. Faith and coming to know God are better, but to say they are everything, why does Jesus appear to contradict this?
If the answer is because Christian theology developed this idea later... then ok, but then we can question that theology. Paul pushed a more faith only approach, but then he was in battle against the Judaisers so emphasised that. I just think, systematic theology may be the enemy here in the end... maybe its a thing of this world.

Not to be nit picky, but I think the good Samaritan was the one who helped the man (a Jew I would assume) attacked by robbers. The point being, IMU, is that although he was not a Jew, the Samaritan was the one who best exemplified the will of God through his acts of love and kindness (good works). Which is why I assume you included the story here. I think you thinks well when you suggest "systematic theology may be the enemy here in the end", it is indeed a thing of this world, and often used for vain and worldly human purposes. This narrative of Jesus being crucified as a ransom payment for forgiveness of my sins (but only if I am a Christian, otherwise I am condemned for them), I have always found to be a bizarre notion. Much more Old Testament (allegiance to the King) ish, then New Testament, (the Kingdom is within you) ish. After all, if one can know God and attain heaven through good deeds and acts (done for goodness sake ), without swearing allegiance to a prescribed dogma, then is this not an existential threat to the church and those (Scribes, Pharisees, Pastors, and Popes) who systemized the theology in the first place. Perhaps those who know God, do good deeds out of love and compassion for all, because they have the knowledge of both good and evil and choose the former, and therefore already have the Kingdom of Heaven within. Perhaps those who are trying so hard to get you to believe they control the keys to heaven, are just blocking the view of a door that has no lock.

Gal. 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in this ONE word even in this: Thou shalt LOVE thy neighbor as thyself.

[SimpleMan]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Not to be nit picky, but I think the good Samaritan was the one who helped the man (a Jew I would assume) attacked by robbers. The point being, IMU, is that although he was not a Jew, the Samaritan was the one who best exemplified the will of God through his acts of love and kindness (good works). Which is why I assume you included the story here. I think you thinks well when you suggest "systematic theology may be the enemy here in the end", it is indeed a thing of this world, and often used for vain and worldly human purposes. This narrative of Jesus being crucified as a ransom payment for forgiveness of my sins (but only if I am a Christian, otherwise I am condemned for them), I have always found to be a bizarre notion. Much more Old Testament (allegiance to the King) ish, then New Testament, (the Kingdom is within you) ish. After all, if one can know God and attain heaven through good deeds and acts (done for goodness sake ), without swearing allegiance to a prescribed dogma, then is this not an existential threat to the church and those (Scribes, Pharisees, Pastors, and Popes) who systemized the theology in the first place. Perhaps those who know God, do good deeds out of love and compassion for all, because they have the knowledge of both good and evil and choose the former, and therefore already have the Kingdom of Heaven within. Perhaps those who are trying so hard to get you to believe they control the keys to heaven, are just blocking the view of a door that has no lock.

I understand what you are trying to tell me... but I can't deny what the Word of God says... There's nobody who is trying such things, I saw the evil with my very own eyes and this changed me completely... I think for myself, I read the Bible on my own, I don't go to priests and so on.I intend to find a church with people that can see the truth..

[SimpleMan]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

Gal. 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in this ONE word even in this: Thou shalt LOVE thy neighbor as thyself.

Yes, true love, not the one we hear every day.True love comes only from God, why? God is love and God is the truth. :)

[sky]

Originally Posted by SimpleMan

Yes, true love, not the one we hear every day.True love comes only from God, why? God is love and God is the truth. :)

What about true love for Athiests/Hindu's/Buddhists etc: where does it come from?

As I said previously Love has no religion.