Baffled by Consciousness...

[Tamara]

Given that our Essence (Consciousness) always stays the same and is not affected by anything e.g "our" emotions, feelings, thoughts etc, then how does it experience them, because to experience them it would have to feel them?

If Consciousness stays completely neutral all the time, then how is it experiencing everything that "we experience"?

[hazada guess]

look to the brain, whilst incarnated our souls are closely in touch with it, whilst in the Astral, we are just pure consciousness.(IMO).

[iamthat]

An interesting question. Maybe we can think of it in terms of Consciousness and consciousness.

Consciousness (with a capital 'C') is the Silent Witness, the neutral Observer, which remains untouched by all human experience.

Consciousness (with a small 'c') is the extension of Consciousness into the human form. This consciousness is our self-identity. This consciousness tends to identify with personality, thoughts, feelings, the physical body, and thus experiences all events in human form.

We can think of consciousness as an exploratory probe sent out by Consciousness to experience life in the limitations of form. When the human form is discarded Consciousness withdraws its extension, consciousness returns to Consciousness and the lessons learned are uploaded.

So the spiritual journey is consciousness (or self-identity) seeking to release its identification with personality, thoughts, feelings, the physical body, and return to identification with Consciousness while still in human form.

Then the human form becomes a vehicle of expression for Consciousness without distortion - thus we have the various saints and sages of different cultures.

What usually happens on the spiritual journey is that there is a long period where consciousness fluctuates between identification with Consciousness and identification with personality and the body. This can be a difficult time as consciousness is no longer satisfied by form but is not yet stabilised in the formlessness of Consciousness. Hence all the problems that the spiritual aspirant faces.

Peace

An afterthought - maybe the distinction will be clearer if I use bold? Not sure if it works.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Tamara

our Essence (Consciousness) always stays the same and is not affected by anything... If Consciousness stays completely neutral all the time,

Great post and questions to me. These are just my opinions but it is how I see things at the moment. I think we are consciousness, the soul, me, I, awareness etc. So many words can be used to point to myself and others. As we really are. But then we are merged with a body for this life so then we get into all of that stuff.... I am Maisy I have long hair etc etc. We all say "I am this or that." that's how we are conditioned to think and talk. I'm angry or happy. I don't think we are actually any of these things we say we are.... the body and it's mind is temporary, same with thoughts and emotions. None are really us but we talk and speak like they are. We look in the mirror.... "Oh I don't look good today or I look awesome today, my hair is a mess...oh I have a new wrinkle....." That's normal conditioning. We operate and think and talk like we are a body and everything that goes with that.

I don't think Consciousness stays completely neutral most of the time, and if it is neutral, well I would call that non-attachment or liberation from ego and conditioning. I think it takes higher awareness to be neutral in my view. Because I think the "natural state" for us humans (consciousness in a physical body) is to fully identify with our thoughts and emotions and our conditioning. With our body and it's life and story. I think for most, consciousness is fully lost in these delusions. It does experience negative emotions and all the rest. The point there I think is for us to learn we can rise above such things.

Consciousness, the perceiver, that which is aware and perceives, me, I, the soul, oh I think it totally changes, changes a lot. I would not say it stays the same. I think the astral world is made of of different levels, higher souls go to higher planes. If all souls (conscious awareness) were the same, we would all go to the same realm after this human life is over and I don't think we do. Just going from a consciousness fully identifying with the body and it's mind and thoughts to not identifying with parts of it I think shows a huge growth of awareness/knowledge or understanding in a consciousness. So I see consciousness as a thing that can change. It can increase in awareness and understanding for example.

I would say consciousness can be totally effected by anything/everything e.g "our" emotions, feelings, thoughts etc. It's up to the awareness levels of the consciousness. Up to it's state of being. Up to how attached it is. Up to how understanding it is. Like I said above, I don't think every consciousness is the same. Some have a lot of awareness and some have almost none. Some have self understanding and some don't. It's not an on or off type thing, more like a scale. Like say awareness in a human can be 0 to 1 million. People could be anywhere on that scale and it can vary throughout the day and night.

Some can lose a $20 bill or rip their pants and completely lose it, get angry and scream and so on and others may not care at all. I think the ones that lose it are not very self aware. They are at the mercy of the body mind, it's emotions and reactions, and ego etc. Trapped to experience their conditioning. Others can drop their conditioning at will. Stop identifying with the thought stream in their minds whenever they want, thus, end negative emotions through this advanced non-attachment and self awareness.

I think imagining some "enlightened" soul, that is always neutral etc is kind of a simplification of things. To me, there is higher and lower, good and bad, moral and immoral. For example, harming others is bad and wrong, Helping others is good and right. Not because of any belief but simply because we are all one. I think all consciousness springs forth from the same source (God) and all life is one. Therefore, to harm another is to harm the whole. The whole will seek to bring all into perfect harmony and that to me is what karma basically is. Laws that try to correct souls that are not in harmony with the collective whole or God.

I think the idea of "neutrality" is really about non-attachment and not about seeing all choices or realties as being equal. I think a soul that can't tell or see or understand the difference between harming someone or helping someone is lost. One is good and one is bad in my view. I think a spiritual person knows and chooses helping over harming or hurting every time. I think where "neutrality" comes into it is we understand those who do bad do so due to a lack of awareness, understanding and so on. We don't see them as "bad" but as ignorant.

[God-Like]

No one really knows what Consciousness is, it certainly isn't realised as that and labelled as that. So right from the off peeps then start to declare a foundation of that as if it is true.

When peeps start to divide Consciousness with feeling and experiencing then alarm bells should start ringing .

There is no divide from what you are that experiences and what doesn't .


x daz x

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Tamara

Given that our Essence (Consciousness) always stays the same and is not affected by anything e.g "our" emotions, feelings, thoughts etc, then how does it experience them, because to experience them it would have to feel them?

If Consciousness stays completely neutral all the time, then how is it experiencing everything that "we experience"?

Consciousness does NOT experience anything. It does have access to the experiences of the body/mind in which it is associated/connected/incarnated into.

For simplicity, think about consciousness as reading 'your' biography. This allows it to know what happened and yet still remain neutral.

[Busby]

In my book consciousness is that which attaches us to the surrounding universe.

Put simply we live in two worlds. Both exist in and with each other, both are visible and both together form that world in which we live. One world is organic and the other non-organic, we have forgotten, or not seen or ignored the fact that all sentient beings stand separate from other forms of existence.

Example; I am sitting here in my room in the middle of non-organic stuff - except for myself and the plant near the window everything around me is 'dead' stuff. Of course there may well be creepy-crawlies in the corners which I cannot see and who also experience the world from their own aspect but I hesiate to think that the chair I am sitting on experiences the world. But I'm not sure, how do I know how the atoms and molecules of the chair experience the warmth of my bum?

Atoms in the water in the pan on the stove get so excited by being heated up that the water bubbles and boils.

My chair was once organic, it grew up in the woods, maybe behind your house.

It was chopped down and is now dead (?) Although if I threw it onto a fire it would burn brightly and release a lot of energy - although its organic days are long gone. All dead stuff disappears eventually and turns back to humus (of many kinds) and from this humus life appears again (of many kinds) and with re-appearing life consciousness also appears again - seemingly out of nothingness.

Surely consciousness is the driving force of the universe, it is life itself. It is itself within itself and everything with form and substance is the result of an ever-growing collective series of experienced knowledge.

Everything there is feeds its own experience of being back into the universe and the echo you as a human get back forms your own world - and the world in which you believe.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by wstein

Consciousness does NOT experience anything.

I'm sorry, I have to comment - understand I'm not trying to start anything and I like you!

BUT, How the heck do you know? Did you talk to Consciousness?
Did you read something? Did you have a moment of Insight or Cosmic Consciousness?
Are you using your logic to come up with this so definitively?
And thanks, really. Anyone can jump in. :)

Maybe I'm confusing Consciousness with the Higher Power, Infinite Knowledge, the Brilliant 'Something ' that is everywhere.
And if they are not the same thing ---what would separate them?

I do understand the wave is not the ocean and the ocean is not that one wave.
The Sun is the sun ---but it's rays are not the actual orb called the Sun.
(I've been talking to JASG about this presently, too.)

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by wstein

Consciousness does NOT experience anything. It does have access to the experiences of the body/mind in which it is associated/connected/incarnated into.

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

How the heck do you know?

We can discuss this both ways depending on how we consider consciousness.

The body acts or is acted upon. Emotions arise. Thoughts arise. Consciousness is simply present as the neutral witness to whatever arises.

The body acts or is acted upon. Emotions arise. Thoughts arise. Consciousness regards itself as being that which is doing, feeling, thinking.
All these things are registered in consciousness as they happen. Without the presence of consciousness none of these things would be experienced.

Which is why I differentiate between Consciousness as the Witness and consciousness as the experiencer, the latter being the extension of the former into the human vehicle.

I question the statement "think about consciousness as reading 'your' biography. This allows it to know what happened and yet still remain neutral."
Instead I suggest that we think about consciousness as acting a role in a drama. Does consciousness identify with the role or does consciousness know itself to be the actor playing a part?

Peace

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by God-Like

No one really knows what Consciousness is, ... There is no divide from what you are that experiences and what doesn't .

I agree. Consciousness is a big mystery, even though it is present at every moment in our lives.

But I suggest that the consciousness we are aware of in our daily existence is but a very limited fragment of Consciousness as our true nature. And we have no idea how magnificent we really are, because the limitations of the human form create a division between our experience and our true nature.

Peace