The Absolute is not a God nor Awareness

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by wstein

'Awareness', 'known', and 'experienced' are attributes/distinctions that can not exist in Absolute. Depending on how you think about it, in Absolute there is either nothing or one thing. The above three words imply at least duality (2+), thus incompatible with Absolute (0) or (1).at all.

We can know things far beyond being able to express that knowledge through words or symbols such as mathematics etc.
Doesn't really mean the human race is going to try and stop expressing absolute knowledge in the form of mathematical theorems etc.
It would be foolish to say that scientific investigation is over when obviously its not.
As for 1s and Zeros well lets just say they will be outdated someday...or the logic behind them will, so 1 +0 will equal something like 3.
Already to me Zero equals 1 how could it not be 1 ?

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[AsIDream]

There is no God. That would make for something outside the Self. There is only Selfless Awareness.

[Unseeking Seeker]

To quote the opening lines of the epic text, ‘The Holy Science’ by Swami Yukteswar Giri ~

‘Spirit or God is everlasting, complete, without beginning or end. It is one, indivisible Being. The eternal Father, God, is the only real substance, Sat, and is all in all in the universe.’

In my view, the difficulty is attempting to see or know God is simply our choice to separate ourself from the all-that-is. Ego or identity is a small bubble flowing in a vast ocean. It is the ocean but has created a small domain within this ephemeral bubble. When the bubble bursts noiselessly, imaginary ego, or that that never was, dies, disappears and the all-that-is, which always was and is, remains.

The aim of different scriptures, formed on basis of wisdom garnered by various sages is aimed to this end, which however can be pointed out to but not translated since it requires us to shed our identity and so become what we already are but know not in active cognition.

For example, if we say, ‘I had a this or that experience’, this affirmation, valid as it is, presupposes a subject-object relationship, which is of course natural in duality, for that is how it works but is yet delusional, since the transcendence of singularity wherefrom immanence or immersion in duality was enabled, the nondual awareness is negated or simply not recognised. That is the self-imposed veil or what we can term as ignorance.

Usage of words like God vs Absolute serves no purpose, in my view. Words are symbols. For instance, if we speak of soul or Self or Higher Self or physical vs astral vs casual planes or states and even ‘higher’ like buddhic, atmic, monadic and so on, what does it really convey? We assign imagined meanings to these symbols but unless we see directly and so know in definitiveness, it’s merely another idea.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by AsIDream

There is no God. That would make for something outside the Self. There is only Selfless Awareness.

Is it possible that what we call the Self, that which we experience as limitless Being, is actually the product of something far greater and far more powerful?

I suspect that we humans are fairly low down the scale of Consciousness. Maybe the highest states of Being we humans can attain barely makes an impression on the Consciousness of yet greater Cosmic Beings.

In other words, what we might call an Absolute could actually be a relative state within an even greater ABSOLUTE.

I am cautious about making definitive statements about how things are. We simply do not know.

Peace

[Unseeking Seeker]

@ iamthat #25 ~ you’ve raised a highly interesting point, from the perspective of my understanding on this, the Self.

So as not to speak in vague metaphors, the Self in singularity, being living light soft white yet bright, renewing itself in itself, in time dissolved ineffable peace, feeling complete, with no going or coming or doing to be done but possessing full freedom, is as is.

Alright. However, there is a causeless cause, spontaneous, playful, in resonance with the full freedom Self has, which triggers a shift of presence into duality, involving a ‘lessening’ of its Absoluteness. What is the source of this trigger? This suggests that the Self, made in God’s image, as living light, though complete, is as yet in a nascent stage of its full potency to create in as related to the threefold aspects of love, wisdom and power.

Thus, my opinion is that there is more than the Self, as it is, in its present state of vitality. Time will tell.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

Thus, my opinion is that there is more than the Self, as it is, in its present state of vitality. Time will tell.

Yes, the Self is complete in itself. But that does not mean that there is nothing greater than the Self.

We inhabit a universe which is apparently driven by Intelligent Purpose. Some may claim that this universe has developed at random, but for others the inherent Intelligence of the universe is obvious.

If we declare that there is no God then that suggests we have full understanding of the universe and its origins. Which is unlikely.

At the same time, that Being which we may experience as the Self is not necessarily the ultimate Cause behind the universe in its many dimensions.

All I can really claim to know is that "I AM". Everything else is just conjecture.

Peace

[Starman]

I do not believe in an absolute because absolutes are final, they refer to the very highest and greatest limit, but infinity has no limits, it has no top or bottom, nor does it have a front or back, or sides. If there is an absolute it transcends words, even the word “God.” If there is an absolute it is beyond thought. Absolute must include all that is or is not, all that exists everywhere and all that does not exist anywhere. How can we know what does not exist when we can barely comprehend what does exist.

[Unseeking Seeker]

@ Starman ~ during a meditation immersion, many have felt an expansion of consciousness wherein the universe is in us, not the other way around. Likewise, to become the vital breath of God in all beings. All this, in direct experience.

Now, leaving aside for the moment, the wonderment and astonishment of such a definitive knowing, my submission is that we cannot get to where we already are not. In other words, we are already all of that but not in active awareness, in our individuated mind-body.

Upon identity falling away (it feels like a dead leaf dropping off a tree), the light of Self, of our true Self transcendental in singularity, is recognised in active cognition, within this duality.

Mind must drop off, being part of the dual apparatus, useful to navigate but if not rested, it blocks undifferentiated perception.

Edit: I see, you’ve said more or less the same thing actually, in another thread ~ https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...1&postcount=42

[Starman]

Unseeking Seeker, I too have had that experience of cosmic consciousness, where you find your physical body is within you, your consciousness, and even further where you find the world and all the physical forms, the sky and ocean, are also within you and you are not within it.

It is an incredible experience which, upon return to everyday human consciousness, may influence us to ask, “what is and what is not.” In my opinion if it has form then it is illusive and really has no permanent existence regardless how solid or concrete it may appear to us at the moment.

So, there is nonexistence from the point of illusion, or illusiveness, there is also nonexistence from the point of unconsciousness or non-awareness. Whether we exist or not depends on whether we are aware or not. Self-referral is what gives us existence.

We may not be able to get where we are not conscious of or aware of but nonetheless, we may be carried by ebb and flow into that nonexistent unidentifiable state. In my opinion awareness is a projection of consciousness which can be inhabited or withdrawn.

It is one thing to have awareness in duality and another to have awareness in non-duality. Yes, I do feel that we are both saying similar things my friend. Deep peace in complete silence can be an unaware viewless state of nonexistence. But where is God in all of this?

[Unseeking Seeker]

God is and can be seen, when He wishes to be seen, in a manner recognisable to our awareness. Obviously, this cannot be proved, just as who we are as Self cannot be proved, kundalini cannot be proved ~ all has to be experienced directly.