Free Will ? What is it ? Illusions What are They ?

[Gem]

I will. It occurs as a wish toward some future moment, an intention to act.

I am free. Is quite a different thing really, because one might say 'I will earn a million dollars' and once the million is gained he would be very attached to it. So many people are like the LOA of mansions and once gained call themselves successful, and so see with scorn the street wino who is comparitively a failure, so he experiences a detestment of the wino.

So he gets what he wants and says 'I have free will' but he only has will, because he is not free from his craving, attachments and judgements.

Greetings..

things cannot be different from the way they are.

Are you certain of that, Andrew? Have your understandings not changed over time? Do you engage Life differently than you did 10 years ago?

Life is inter-dependent by nature.

Of course Life is interdependent.. when i was young, i lived up in the mountains of rural East Tennessee, and our property depended on a stream for its water.. another family, further up the hollow, had built a dam and diverted much of the water to make a pond.. we were all interconnected in that mountain valley, further down the valley where the stream was joined by other streams to make a small river, there was a waterwheel.. the diminished flow due to the dam and due to the new bridge on another stream didn't have enough force to turn the wheel.... the family that built the dam made an independent choice to do so, even though they were interconnected with the rest of the valley.. and, after some very civil discussions, they revised their choice.. we found a way to flow the streem through the pond and back into its original channel..

Independence thrives and flourishes together with interconnectedness, it is a beautiful symbiosis.. it is the spontaneity and change we call 'Life'..

Be well..

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi

Greetings..


Are you certain of that, Andrew? Have your understandings not changed over time? Do you engage Life differently than you did 10 years ago?

Yes, my understandings have changed, and yes I would say I relate in a different way these days. But thats stil perfect, thats still the way it is because it has to be.

Of course Life is interdependent.. when i was young, i lived up in the mountains of rural East Tennessee, and our property depended on a stream for its water.. another family, further up the hollow, had built a dam and diverted much of the water to make a pond.. we were all interconnected in that mountain valley, further down the valley where the stream was joined by other streams to make a small river, there was a waterwheel.. the diminished flow due to the dam and due to the new bridge on another stream didn't have enough force to turn the wheel.... the family that built the dam made an independent choice to do so, even though they were interconnected with the rest of the valley.. and, after some very civil discussions, they revised their choice.. we found a way to flow the streem through the pond and back into its original channel..

It seems like an independent choice, but actually its still inter-dependent. You didnt make the decision objectivity. Sounds like a cool place to have lived by the way.

Independence thrives and flourishes together with interconnectedness, it is a beautiful symbiosis.. it is the spontaneity and change we call 'Life'..

Be well..

Inter-dependence and interconnectedness go hand in hand - independence and interconnectedness do not.

Greetings..

Inter-dependence and interconnectedness go hand in hand - independence and interconnectedness do not.

Hi Andrew: They ALL go together.. it is 'YOU' setting limitations on your own experiences of existing, and that's cool, it IS your freewill to choose that belief..

It seems like an independent choice, but actually its still inter-dependent.

it seems like that because that's what it was.. now, 50 years later you are telling a story about it to support what 'you' believe.. your 'mind' is weaving your beliefs into a passionate story that cannot let 'ISness' stand unchallenged.. you feel compelled to tell me i am wrong, your mind is controlling you.. you cannot see this situation objectively, you claim no one can.. if you cannot see objectively, how can you be certain of anything?

Be well..

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi

Greetings..


Hi Andrew: They ALL go together.. it is 'YOU' setting limitations on your own experiences of existing, and that's cool, it IS your freewill to choose that belief..

They dont all go together, and I am not the one setting the limitations! Oh to have that kind of power hehe. Independence and interconnectivity do not go together. We are subjective beings without independence, sovereignty, and without the power of autonomy or objectivity.

it seems like that because that's what it was.. now, 50 years later you are telling a story about it to support what 'you' believe.. your 'mind' is weaving your beliefs into a passionate story that cannot let 'ISness' stand unchallenged.. you feel compelled to tell me i am wrong, your mind is controlling you.. you cannot see this situation objectively, you claim no one can.. if you cannot see objectively, how can you be certain of anything?

Be well..

Im just saying what I see Bob, and what I see is inter-dependence and inter-connectivity. Im sorry if you think Im trying to tell you that you are wrong, its not really like that even if it seems like that. Im actually just happy and in joy to be talking to you right now.

I cant be certain of anything because I am not an objective being, but I am at peace with not being certain of anything. I dont live with uncertainty just as much as I dont live with certainty.

Tzu... i lived up in the mountains of rural East Tennessee

Wow Tzu! You're a true Southerner! COOL !!! Have you kept your wonderful accent?

Ahh, hail, hail, the gang's almost all here. All we need is the Phrog and HD for a full set.

CS

Greetings..

Originally Posted by Wind of Grace

Wow Tzu! You're a true Southerner! COOL !!! Have you kept your wonderful accent?

Hi Grace: My parents moved to Florida when i was 7 years old, i spent my summers at my grandmother's horse farm in the mountains.. when we got to Fla. the teacher called my parents for a conference to discuss my 'speech'.. while the accent was its own issue, i also stuttered far worse than Porky Pig, so.. between the two, i spent 3 years in speech therapy.. what remains is a hint of 'The Old South', a genteel-like softness of expression.. until i get excited or nervous, then it can, as they say, "go South"..

Part of the speech therapy was imitating different accents, from which i developed a love of language and the effect of accent on expression.. i am fond of employing very subtle changes of accent during conversation to enhance or add emphasis to a phrase..

Be well..

Greetings..

I cant be certain of anything because I am not an objective being, but I am at peace with not being certain of anything.

Hi Andrew: You seem very certain that "They dont all go together"..

Be well..

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi

Greetings..


Hi Andrew: You seem very certain that "They dont all go together"..

Be well..

It sounds certain because thats how words tend to sound when a statement is made, but the statements being made are not ones that are being held as knowings (or beliefs) of the mind.