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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Buddhism

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  #81  
Old 25-07-2021, 08:21 AM
AbodhiSky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayar415
Can we just sit and watch without any movement of thought? How does that work?

I used to read a lot of Krishnamurti and I would say you may have jumped to a false conclusion there about non-moral action but your logic flow makes sense. Thought is not the only cause of action. Action, free of thought and thinking, is immediate and spontaneous and flows from consciousnesses or spirit itself. From our state of being.

I saw a video the other day and a man is standing next to his baby in a stroller, the man is reading a paper a few feet away from the stroller and the baby suddenly falls forward and the man sees the baby falling out of the stroller in his peripheral vision and he leaps forward and catches the babies head an inch from the pavement. It was an automatic action. No thought or thinking involved.

If one operates from spirit, from love, it motivates action. I don't know what K quotes you are referring to, but I assume what he meant there was to be introspective, to just look, so as to gain freedom from thought and thinking. He was not specifically talking about the mechanism of action there. He was describing "mindfulness" if one wants to say it in Buddhist terms, emptiness.

Emptiness really is a misunderstood term in my view. But then everything is misunderstood isn't it. If it was understood, we would all be liberated. True understanding is beyond words and language as well.
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  #82  
Old 25-07-2021, 08:36 AM
sky sky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice
A good practical example!

(Nyanaponika Thera has written an excellent essay on the text quoted. It can be found on the net with a bit of googling.)

Thanks I will have a look
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  #83  
Old 25-07-2021, 09:11 AM
The Cobbler's Apprentice The Cobbler's Apprentice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
Thanks I will have a look

The essay is "Protection Through Satipatthana"
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  #84  
Old 25-07-2021, 09:17 AM
sky sky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice
The essay is "Protection Through Satipatthana"
Thank you,

"And how does one, in protecting others, protect oneself? By patience and forbearance, by a non-violent and harmless life, by loving kindness and compassion."
I like them short and straight to the point.

If anyone else is interested.
https://accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth...ika/bl034.html
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  #85  
Old 25-07-2021, 08:10 PM
ayar415 ayar415 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice
I think that the personal transformation that can take place by "acceptance" will have its inevitable effect upon our attitude toward others.

What is wrong with our attitude now? I know you are a good person. All of us are. Perhaps, this is as good as it gets.
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  #86  
Old 25-07-2021, 08:24 PM
ayar415 ayar415 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbodhiSky
I used to read a lot of Krishnamurti and I would say you may have jumped to a false conclusion there about non-moral action but your logic flow makes sense.

What do mean by "a false conclusion about non-moral action"?
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  #87  
Old 25-07-2021, 08:40 PM
ayar415 ayar415 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbodhiSky
I saw a video the other day and a man is standing next to his baby in a stroller, the man is reading a paper a few feet away from the stroller and the baby suddenly falls forward and the man sees the baby falling out of the stroller in his peripheral vision and he leaps forward and catches the babies head an inch from the pavement. It was an automatic action. No thought or thinking involved.

Reflex. It was an instinctual response. Quite natural. Why is there a need to explain it as an action of the spirit? Just because it is natural doesn't mean it is explicable. There are lots of phenomena in life that are magical.
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  #88  
Old 25-07-2021, 09:01 PM
The Cobbler's Apprentice The Cobbler's Apprentice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayar415
What is wrong with our attitude now? I know you are a good person. All of us are. Perhaps, this is as good as it gets.

As I see it everything is inter-related. As a Buddhist (irrespective of my own chosen path) I see enlightenment as the bottom line. This in my mind relates to much else that has been part of my posts - I tend to respond pretty spontaneously but there is, I would hope, a degree of unity and coherence!

I don't go for "being good" ( No Merit thread) When D T Suzuki met Thomas Merton in New York (Merton had managed, having become -as he called it, an "anti-monk", to get out of the monastery for the trip!) Merton quoted to him some words of a South American theologian:- "Praise be to God that I am not good" and Suzuki responded:- "That is so important." Suzuki was a non-theist but could relate........words/expressions can be very elastic if we are not dogmatic about them.

Acceptance to me, pure acceptance, is the transformative experience. It can come from the zafu or from faith. I'm truly not interested in seeing myself as a "good person". It may just be me but being in any way self-consciously good leads to a pharisaic judgement of others who fail to measure up to our own standards. Acceptance of ourselves, acceptance of others. As we say in the Pure Land:- "Come just as you are".

"As good as it gets"? Who knows? My faith if given content is in infinite compassion, infinite wisdom, infinite potential. Who can set limits? I'm not interested in a future world or life, but what will be will be.
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  #89  
Old 25-07-2021, 09:20 PM
ayar415 ayar415 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbodhiSky
Emptiness really is a misunderstood term in my view. But then everything is misunderstood isn't it. If it was understood, we would all be liberated. True understanding is beyond words and language as well.

You are postulating something here that is beyond the realm of the intellect and the 5 senses. I prefer to stay on this side of reality.

Krishnamurti was difficult to understand not because "that otherness" (Krishnamurti's term) or its Buddhist equivalent - such as "emptiness", "nothingness" or "void" - is beyond words and cannot be grasped by the mind. The reason is that Krishnamurti was not adept at explaining it. He didn't have much education and was not good at book learning. I studied his dialogues with Bohm who tried to follow Krishnamurti's explanations. None of them went anywhere. I do not fault Bohm. He was smart enough. It was Krishnamurti whom I found infuriating. As it turned out, everybody - including Bohm - accepted that Krishnamurti had the gnosis (spiritually enlightened) and Bohm was the dud. This is so unfair.

So, don't sell yourself short. I am sure you have more book smarts than Krishnamurti, Dogen, and Bodhiharma all rolled together. We can crack this "emptiness" puzzle. And there is no way the likes of Dogen can understand how wifi works or how I can get my Bose Soundtouch speaker, across the room, streaming music from my laptop through Bluetooth.
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  #90  
Old 26-07-2021, 02:47 AM
ayar415 ayar415 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice
"As good as it gets"? Who knows? My faith if given content is in infinite compassion, infinite wisdom, infinite potential. Who can set limits? I'm not interested in a future world or life, but what will be will be.

I hear you. To step over a starving child without noticing or caring, because its future outcome will be what will be is, is infinite compassion.
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