I am arrogant, help me please.

[Altair]

Don't talk yourself down, Lucid. If you feel insecure about a number of things then don't talk bad about what you are good at. Wanting to have debates with others doesn't make you a bad person. If humans didn't have debates and discussions there would have been no scientific and technological progress. If you are a smart person than it's good to stimulate yourself. Can be debates, or something else, but that is your call. Don't let yourself be talked down.

As for Christianity... there are many Christians that seem to enjoy debating, lol!

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Quite often the need to debate is an attempted externalization of a validation process. Some of this is residual from a dominant objective orientation that precedes spiritual awakening, and is based on insecurity of self and manifests socially and interactively. But in the context of spiritual practice the origin of this insecurity must be identified and transformed.

If you need validation from others - and many times this is so because it wasn’t provided in the early family environment, or was even thwarted by trauma or oppression - there is an active need, expectation, or demand for this kind of fulfillment for verbal, intellectual human beings.

This often takes the form of debate, an incessant hunger for self-assertion of ego, opinion, and preference - and often the invalidation of others. This is where the recognition of arrogance appears, and is an accurate assessment - but that recognition is a useful proposition.

This attempted provision of self validation is ultimately empty because it cannot be truly authentic in the context of spirituality, once one is awakened to spiritual possibilities of life..

The truly authentic validation and confidence comes from within, from Highest Self, which in spiritual practice becomes increasingly internal and subjective - and therefore does not seek external validation by such means.

If you observe those who require this stimulation, you will see that it is an endless addiction, ultimately sterile, and also a little sad, because it must be substantially dishonest or insincere (again, arrogance).

It’s not an external objectified debate regarding opinion and preference (comparing ignorance with self-same of others) that is validating, because that is a false validation anyway - but an internal invocation and dialog with one’s own soul, highest self, God that provides the truest validation possible: the actual becoming of Truth and Highest Self.


~ J

Jyotir,

Would you consider this internal emptiness to be well addressed through ‘looking’ at it, the impulse, underlying feelings etc.

Cure is Spirit, yes, but I assume many and even most may not know even how to approach.

As an old friend once said, you have to “see” it first.

Thanks, Jyotir

Jl

[Jyotir]

Self-examination is a core constituent of any legitimate, effective yoga sadhana (spiritual practice).

~ J

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Lucid

I'm just going to be blunt, I am arrogant. I am not always arrogant, but when I am arrogant I do it really well which is to say badly. Here's how I know I am arrogant. I have a good stretch of time where I am doing really well, treating people with genuine kindness and love, feeling joy and striving to be like Christ (possibly my downfall). Then I get caught in what often seems to be my trap, debate with others. I have always loved debate ever since I was young and I think it must of been because I was so insecure in everything except my intellect. I don't (anymore) go out intentionally causing trouble (meaning in online forums and social media) but if it arrives I often am not sad about it and look forward to pitting myself against others in a game of wits and logic.

I do genuinely have a heart for God, I love God and I love Jesus. I want to serve and I want to serve well. I want to be of use but I feel like I am not and I worry that may be my arrogance too. Occasionally I actually am because I can tell people are thankful for the love and kindness I show them but I almost always mess it up when I start feeling myself too much and the next thing I know I find myself apologizing for making a fool out of myself and feeling like the biggest moron that ever walked the Earth which is also probably part of my arrogance because I am always so hard on myself and hold myself to a standard that if it is not impossible, is pretty damn close.

When I was growing up I did not have an easy childhood in the home or anywhere. There was no safety, there was no comfort, there was no security, there was no certainty and there was very little expression of love. My parents did love me but they were suffering so much that they were not able to properly show it or protect me and my sister. I never saw my parents hug or kiss, I can count on one hand the times my mother told me she loved me and my father who did try and was loving in an affectionate way when he was around but he used drugs to escape from because he couldn't handle life. I have genuinely forgiven my parents and I love them very much.

I wasn't able to be a child and by 9 years old I was genuinely already planing to kill myself but I decided I couldn't do it because I had to protect my sister as best I could. I was spiritually attacked by entities and was physically attacked by people. The hardest thing was knowing that my mother and father were suffering and I couldn't do anything about it and I was terrified of seeing my younger sister suffer they way I watched my parents suffer.

I feel kind of like I raised myself emotionally speaking in a storm of chaos and though I did my best to hold it together and be a decent person and all that I feel like I failed. It's funny because I often want to help others and make a positive impact in peoples lives and that is genuinely my heart but it seems sometimes that I can't take one step forward without taking two steps back.

I definitely have made a lot of progress since becoming a Christian, there is no question about that but I'm not where I want to be at all and that too is probably part of my of arrogance. I've spent years humbling myself trying to solve this issue and I feel like a lot of progress has been made but when my arrogance surfaces its like falling down an elevator shaft of a skyscraper which I guess is the whole pride before the fall thing.

When I mess up I feel like I let everyone down and I get so angry at myself. Growing up if I had a tooth ache I would purposefully make the tooth hurt more not because I wanted to hurt myself but I felt like I was weak and I had to be strong and the result of this attitude was that I put myself through hell for about 15 years to the point that I was actually trying to destroy myself.

So yeah I feel very foolish right now but I'm hoping that someone can give me some advice, maybe someone else dealt with this before or anything really. I feel like I go from these extremes, one side to other feeling very confident and sure and then wham and boom all of a sudden I don't know what's what anymore.

Thank you for any help, advice, idea or prayers.

Hi Lucid,

Have you considered therapy to look into your behaviors and subtle beliefs. For example, you made your tooth hurt because you felt you had to be strong.

It sounds like there is a lot of hurt and resentment that is still stored, and would be normal and natural. It's not the hurt that matters: it's how we heal from it that defines us.

Also, please go easy on yourself - the self judgement may come from damaged self esteem.

Try to spend more time in nature, find things that you enjoy and can relax with. Learn about self-love and be kind to youself. From there, then there is the possibility of loving others...

JL

[Lucid]

Originally Posted by Elfin

Hi Lucid.. and oh my goodness, I had to respond.. because for the most part I could have written this... Please please PLEASE.. never think for one moment you are "inadequate" in any way, shape or form.... You sound perfectly normal in your thoughts and feelings... And I would even go as far as to say you are much more caring and empathic towards others than the "average" person....... You are letting no-one down... Least of all God... Or yourself.... None of us are perfect... We are not "meant" to be ...that's why we are here... But I would say you are going just fine, and try not to be too hard on yourself... Sending a hug to you...

Thank you Elfin, God has revealed to me that my weak point is my self worth because I base it on lies which I believed from childhood and that is where Satan attacks me. While I am serving God, actually acting out of love for God and not for my own pleasure and I feel amazing and am flying so high and then when I am soaring in heavens full of abundant joy pride enters into my heart and I start seeking my own will and pleasure to satisfy my false self which believes the lies of Satan and is effectively cutting my own wings and thus being unable to glide upon God's love and will and then *thud* lol.

This has been a repeating process for me as I am sure it is part of the human experience and as I've said it's gotten so much better over the years because with every fall God is there to pick me back up, dust me off and send me off with a little breath beneath my wings. As I am able to fly higher, it only means I fall further when I forget the reason I was able to fly in the first place. The issue is not me or you in terms of our worth or letting God down as you say but rather it's that we believe lies about ourselves and the pursuit of those lies is our own destruction.

Thankfully God is so merciful, kind and loving that we get to soar and dive head first repeatedly into the Earth AND get back up and try again with each flight, crash and rescue bringing us closer and closer to the surrendering and acceptance of God's love.

Thank you for your response and your kindness Elfin, God bless you!

[Lucid]

Originally Posted by davidmartin

"He who will go forward with his whole heart will obtain what he seeks. Only do not be of two minds"

I like this, reminds of the William Blake quote:

"The fool who persists in his folly will become wise."

I'm a fool pursuing my folly to the end baby lol!

[Lucid]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Quite often the need to debate is an attempted externalization of a validation process. Some of this is residual from a dominant objective orientation that precedes spiritual awakening, and is based on insecurity of self and manifests socially and interactively. But in the context of spiritual practice the origin of this insecurity must be identified and transformed.

If you need validation from others - and many times this is so because it wasn’t provided in the early family environment, or was even thwarted by trauma or oppression - there is an active need, expectation, or demand for this kind of fulfillment for verbal, intellectual human beings.

This often takes the form of debate, an incessant hunger for self-assertion of ego, opinion, and preference - and often the invalidation of others. This is where the recognition of arrogance appears, and is an accurate assessment - but that recognition is a useful proposition.

This attempted provision of self validation is ultimately empty because it cannot be truly authentic in the context of spirituality, once one is awakened to spiritual possibilities of life..

The truly authentic validation and confidence comes from within, from Highest Self, which in spiritual practice becomes increasingly internal and subjective - and therefore does not seek external validation by such means.

If you observe those who require this stimulation, you will see that it is an endless addiction, ultimately sterile, and also a little sad, because it must be substantially dishonest or insincere (again, arrogance).

It’s not an external objectified debate regarding opinion and preference (comparing ignorance with self-same of others) that is validating, because that is a false validation anyway - but an internal invocation and dialog with one’s own soul, highest self, God that provides the truest validation possible: the actual becoming of Truth and Highest Self.


~ J

You're spot on in so much of what you say. I am in battle with a false insecure self that places it's identity in the devils lies and a self that is real and securely in the heart of God. Depending upon which one I choose to bring forth, I fly or I fall.

[Lucid]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Misposted.

I'm not sure if you mean that I posted this in wrong forum section or not but if that is the case I posted it here because I am a Christian, and I wanted the thoughts of those who love and value Christ. If you mean something else, I apologize I'm not sure what you mean.

[Lucid]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

To complement Elfin's points, I would say you want to excel and then 'crash'.
I would recommend you take it one step at a time and enjoy the experience.

Do you have fellow Christians you can associate with?

I know the places I used to go to would have refreshments, deserts, etc. and time in which we could talk to each other.
Those were special moments.

Yes sir you've got it, I think my personality is that I push myself to extremes in the same way a martial artist might train exceptionally hard because he want's so badly to be the best fighter he can be. Also there are other Christians I can talk to and do but for the most part I'm the kind of person that keeps these things to myself but if I really need help I will reach out to others as I did here today and usually that is enough for me.

Thank you : )