The dark side of meditation

[Serrao]

Originally Posted by Serrao

Are you saying that your reason for meditation is solely to maintain and develop equanimity?

Very succinct view.
I like your way of integrating something as confusing as meditation in such a way.
Keeps ones life clear and simple in a certain way.

Originally Posted by gem

'proper' meditation is observing what is there, and on minute 45 when it's a stiff neck and pain in the knees, you get to see the reactive individual who isthere, and how that kind of reaction; frustration, disappointment, impatience ect is the reality one lives in daily life. Frustrated with others, impatient in traffic, disappointed in self etc.

So 45 minutes in and you start to get on your own nerves. Most of us don't need meditation to acheive that state.

This from here

Q:How long should I meditate each day?

A:It is good to do meditation for 15 minutes every day for a week and then extend the time by 5 minutes each week until you are meditating for 45 minutes.After a few weeks of regular daily meditation you will start to notice that your concentration gets better, there are less thoughts, and you have moments of real peace and stillness.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Neville

So 45 minutes in and you start to get on your own nerves. Most of us don't need meditation to acheive that state.

This from here

Meditation is the insight into the state you are actually in, and by conscious awareness of it there is the impetus to change. Your quoted portion of the link is selling peace and stillness as a future projection, but I'm saying see the actual situation as it is right now.

Your quoted portion of the link is selling peace and stillness as a future projection,

I'm sold then. I don't need the horrors but will happily settle for peace and stillness in a sea of turbulance.

I think it is probably down to a persons own requirements of their meditation. Authenticity in facing demons is as authentic as chilling out to the beholder.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Neville

I'm sold then. I don't need the horrors but will happily settle for peace and stillness in a sea of turbulance.

I think it is probably down to a persons own requirements of their meditation. Authenticity in facing demons is as authentic as chilling out to the beholder.

The page is misguided in many ways. I notice it didn't mention equanimity at all and equanimity is the fundamental key.

"equanimity is the fundamental key" I agree, but this can be achieved(in my experience) in transcendence/meditation without waiting three quarters of an hour to get on your own nerves..especially If I am away from my body .

[Tobi]

I personally, can find discomfort anywhere in the here-and-now. I focus on something and forget my legs bent under me at this "Japanese-style"- low table where my laptop is. Sometimes while concentrating I forget my poor body. Then my legs fizz, and I am reminded of them -poor things. I take them for a little walk.
But if I meditate I prefer to be completely relaxed. I don't like to take any formal positions, but relaxed is better.
Or while walking too. That works remarkably well! (In a different way.)

[Serrao]

Originally Posted by Gem

The basic reason for formal sitting, is it makes stillness for the body. In everyday life, a person feels a slight discomfort, experiences some kind of dislike for it, and moves to alleviate it. In the sitting, after a while some kind of discomfort is experienced, but instead of reacting to it and moving around, one remains still in body and mind and observes their breath (I use breath as the example meditation). Equanimity is pretty easy for as long as one is comfortable, but if one sits for long while they soon experience discomfort and notice how highly reactive they are. That's what I usually suggest; sit for at least 45 min and remain still, and see the truth of ones equanimity... and/or reactivity... as may be the case.

I think there are basically two areas one can practice equanimity in:
Equanimity on what one perceives externally and equanimity on what ones perceives internally.
Is your meditation practice only focussed on maintaining and developing inner equanimity when you experience bodily discomfort?

ps.
I personally am into this equanimity-thing too, but I meditate for at least 5 more reasons.

Talking about the "dark side" of meditation is like talking about the "dark side" of a stick because you can smack someone in the face with it. A bit of a simplification, but meditation is a means of purifying and clearing the mind of conditioning. What you do with your mind after that is where good and bad come into play.

-TaoSandwich

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Serrao

I think there are basically two areas one can practice equanimity in:
Equanimity on what one perceives externally and equanimity on what ones perceives internally.
Is your meditation practice only focussed on maintaining and developing inner equanimity when you experience bodily discomfort?

ps.
I personally am into this equanimity-thing too, but I meditate for at least 5 more reasons.

The perceived external world isn't really an issue except in the immediate affect it has on the person, so the reaction is never to external circumstances and always internal to the body. In most cases, people thing they react to the person who annoys them or the long line of traffic or whatever it might be, and thus can find things external to themselves to blame for their unhappiness. When it's realised that reactivity is solely self generated, then a profound sense of responsibility occurs as one has no external reason for their anger or frustration or impatience or whatever it might be.

There is another aspect of the senses where they all act through the nervous system, which means everything that is sensed occurs as sound sight taste and even thought perception, via the nervous system, they all have a feel to them. That feel is the qualia of phenomena, the 'what it's like' of experience. The reactive behaviour, a mental reaction, is operating on that level of qualia, the feel of it, and not actually directly to the sight or sound or the thought. One reacts to 'what it's like'. this also makes the sensory world entirely an internal phenomena.

The reaction is not solely in regards to discomfort, it is also applied to great pleasures, as no one is particularly attached to the pain in their life, but is strongly attached to what feels good. The pleasure reaction is more subtle and insidious than the displeasure reaction, but takes the form of craving and clinging rather than avoidance and aversion.

It's almost inevitable that when a meditator happens upon the higher pleasures of their subtler body and mind, they start to crave that and cling to it, but as all of it is passing experiences and can't be kept, one suffers the disappointments, frustrations and impatience just the same as they do in regards to their initially uncomfortable experiences. The equinimity is regarding everything, and the pleasure is quite a tricky one. In time one understands that everything is change and discomfort and pleasure are the same in nature by virtue of their impermanence.