What are all the verses saying the Father and Jesus are the same being?

Now that Abraham has been mentioned an interesting sidelight to this is the multiple times that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob have been mentioned together in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. They were viewed as the foundation of the Jewish people and pillars of the Jewish religion. A triumvirate one might say. Some have speculated that God let them be portrayed this way to plant the seeds for the acceptance of the idea of the Trinity....Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

It is interesting, for example, to look at Matthew 22:31-33....."But about the resurrection of the dead--have you not read what God said to you, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living. When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching."

They were astonished because God said 'I am' rather than 'I was'. This indicated that all 3 were living in heaven and gave proof of their elevated position. One must remember that in those times there was so assumption that heaven could be accessible to many....only a select few. Christians take for granted that heaven is their final abode because they believe that they are saved by grace. But in those times people lived under the Law and only the most righteous and specially favored by God could expect to ascend to the heavenly realms.

[Morpheus]

Mol, that was well brought out and astute.

Well done.

So, again, Life is more and other than this temporary organic form and manifestation in time and space.
There is a greater truth and reality involving the timeless, and eternity.

[jojo50]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

I love this verse:

John 14:9 "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"

Jesus was not saying that he and his Father are the exact same being. Because Jesus told us over and over that he HAS a GOD and FATHER ,(John 20:17 Jesus said unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God). Jesus couldn't get any more clearer than here. Jesus was ONLY saying that he represents his Father. In ever way he is LIKE his Father. But he is NOT the Father and God.

If he was again, he wouldn't have said this at , (John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent). Here he CLEARLY showed that he was speaking of ANOTHER BEING, besides himself.

And here, once again. ALL seem to know how to repeat this verse ,(John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believe in him should not perish, but have everlasting life), yet seem to IGNORE IT. Jesus did not say he sent himself ,did he? They are ONE, because they are in TOTAL agreement with each other. peace

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by jojo50

Jesus was not saying that he and his Father are the exact same being. Because Jesus told us over and over that he HAS a GOD and FATHER ,(John 20:17 Jesus said unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God). Jesus couldn't get any more clearer than here. Jesus was ONLY saying that he represents his Father. In ever way he is LIKE his Father. But he is NOT the Father and God.

If he was again, he wouldn't have said this at , (John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent). Here he CLEARLY showed that he was speaking of ANOTHER BEING, besides himself.

And here, once again. ALL seem to know how to repeat this verse ,(John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believe in him should not perish, but have everlasting life), yet seem to IGNORE IT. Jesus did not say he sent himself ,did he? They are ONE, because they are in TOTAL agreement with each other. peace

Jesus was also a man..... just like me and you, made of flesh and blood.

John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

So we have verses that suggest He is the Father and we have verses that suggest that they are two different entities.


People forget that He was also a human being, He gave up all His Glory for us... in order for us to be with Him.

[sky]

Originally Posted by jojo50

Jesus was not saying that he and his Father are the exact same being. Because Jesus told us over and over that he HAS a GOD and FATHER ,(John 20:17 Jesus said unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God). Jesus couldn't get any more clearer than here. Jesus was ONLY saying that he represents his Father. In ever way he is LIKE his Father. But he is NOT the Father and God.

If he was again, he wouldn't have said this at , (John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent). Here he CLEARLY showed that he was speaking of ANOTHER BEING, besides himself.

And here, once again. ALL seem to know how to repeat this verse ,(John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believe in him should not perish, but have everlasting life), yet seem to IGNORE IT. Jesus did not say he sent himself ,did he? They are ONE, because they are in TOTAL agreement with each other. peace

I and the Father are ONE......

Originally Posted by jojo50

They are ONE, because they are in TOTAL agreement with each other. peace

jojo50,

You have worked diligently to demonstrate the separateness of God and Jesus yet you conclude with this sentence? This is such a fine point to argue about and I would suggest that this a both/and situation rather than an either/or situation. In a way this sentence contradicts yourself and affirms the others. In this case I will accept an oxymoron....i.e. they are separate but one....:)

[sky]

Originally Posted by Molearner

jojo50,

You have worked diligently to demonstrate the separateness of God and Jesus yet you conclude with this sentence? This is such a fine point to argue about and I would suggest that this a both/and situation rather than an either/or situation. In a way this sentence contradicts yourself and affirms the others. In this case I will accept an oxymoron....i.e. they are separate but one....:)

Individuality in oneness

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

If we are all in Christ and we are, and if He existed before creation, and He existed, then we were also there with Him, in complete unity, before all things were created. And going further, if He is in the Father, and He is, and if the Father is in Him, and He is, then we are also in the Father and the Father is in us. But as long as we keep running and running, as long as we keep being the Prodigal Son, we will not be able to comprehend this primordial truth.

I've been asking myself why the Creator is not revealing Himself to us in a personal way, what Father stays away from His child? Why is He not acting when a child is brutally raped and murdered? Then I understood, it's not that He is hidden, it's that we are running away from Him, it's like Christ said, when you will live through His teachings, then He will reveal Himself to you because then and only then you will be able to comprehend the true nature of things. Of course, as we have seen, He revealed Himself to Paul and Paul was really against His people but maybe this was the only way for Paul reach the Creator, just in the same way Thomas needed to actually touch His wounds. I think that every human being knows and feels deep inside what is the only way for he or she to meet the Creator, for me, it's simple, when I will love/act/think/forgive like Christ, then I will surely see Him in all His glory.

:)

Great post, thank you.
Between you and me, tho ---shhh--- - you would be very surprised
how simple and easy it is to have God reveal Himself.
First, ask Him to.

Then, be still and just wait with that intention...
"Please, Lord, show Yourself to me - I want YOU...I will sit and open myself and wait...make a place for You..:)...I know
You love silence and stillness. Please, visit me." And so on.
That is really it. (And to get that notion out of your head that it is hard
or rare or impossible or you may be undeserving or whatever...)

Could it take a month? Sure.
A year or 2, sure - A day? Sure.
It all depends on how much time and sincerity you are willing to put into it.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Molearner

.... Matthew 22:31-33....."But about the resurrection of the dead--have you not read
what God said to you, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'?

When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching."
They were astonished because God said 'I am' rather than 'I was'.
This indicated that all 3 were living in heaven and gave proof of their elevated position.
....But in those times people lived under the Law and only the most righteous and specially favored
by God could expect to ascend to the heavenly realms.

I love logic like this pointed out!

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by jojo50

Jesus was not saying that he and his Father are the exact same being. Because Jesus told us over and over that he HAS a GOD and FATHER ,(John 20:17 Jesus said unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God). Jesus couldn't get any more clearer than here. Jesus was ONLY saying that he represents his Father. In ever way he is LIKE his Father. But he is NOT the Father and God.

If he was again, he wouldn't have said this at , (John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent). Here he CLEARLY showed that he was speaking of ANOTHER BEING, besides himself.

And here, once again. ALL seem to know how to repeat this verse ,(John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believe in him should not perish, but have everlasting life), yet seem to IGNORE IT.

Jesus did not say he sent himself, did he?

They are ONE, because they are in TOTAL agreement with each other. peace

Thank you - very along the lines of the topic.
Very appreciated.
I do think the, 'Jesus as son, Father as Father', verses out weigh the -
"The Father and I are one" verses.

Our Father Who art in Heaven...another one clearly that the Father is not Jesus/ Jesus is not the Father.
Are their minds and hearts and intentions the same? Yes, most definitely - was Jesus so far the only one
to do so or be so...I think so!
That's just my take - if someone thinks the opposite, ok.