What does spiritual development actually mean?

Shivani, thanks.

JL

[Shivani Devi]

Okay, let's for one moment, talk about the distinction between the conditioned and the unconditioned self then.

Verily, both can be considered as being "ego" from a Jungian or psychological perspective, however spirituality, religion and ethics makes the distinction between thoughts and actions arising from the conscious vs the subconscious mind.

Please bear with me as I get all semantic now.

Okay, let's say somebody has not eaten for three days...they become aware of a gnawing, rumbling sensation in the pit of the stomach and they realise; "I am hungry".

So, a friend comes along and they make passing mention to their friend..."I am starving..got anything to eat?"

The friend takes out a shiny red apple from their bag and says "here we go, I have this...it is all yours... enjoy!"

The hungry person says "thanks, but I don't like the taste of apples...got a Mars Bar?"

One wonders how "starving" they need to be before they will eat the apple, irrespective of how much they dislike apples eh?

This is what the whole "spiritual definition" of ego is all about...likes, dislikes, preferences, wants, desires, attachments etc and according to Buddhism, it is these things and whether we get them or not that leads to suffering when things just do not go our way and then we struggle to try and make/force it so in the attempt to capture a fleeting enjoyment.

If we are talking about the unconditioned self...or the "ego on autopilot", no, there is nothing bad or wrong about that... unless it becomes locked within its own "comfort zone" and afraid to try out new experiences...but then again, that all boils down to preference as well...viz "I prefer to do nothing than to do something".

When we look at a book such as the Bhagavad-Gita, we can see how Lord Krishna explains it:

"O Son of Kunti (Arjuna), the ideas of heat and cold, pleasure and pain, are produced by the contacts of the senses with their objects. Such ideas are limited by a beginning and an end. They are transitory, O Descendent of Bharata (Arjuna); bear them with patience!" — The Bhagavad Gita II:14

When a person seeks to adjust or adapt to their environment, their ego gets involved..but here is the rub..

Let us go back to that hungry person.

Now, what if the hungry person had no ego at ALL? What if they were fully self-realised? Had attained to Samadhi?

They could choose to eat the apple or not and not out of likes, dislikes or preference...but whether they actually wanted to keep the physical body going or not...for they realise that there IS no such thing as "death" for the Atman or the immortal Soul, because what has never been born, can never die! This is basically the whole plot spoiler of the Bhagavad-Gita in a nutshell.

When we lose the identification with a "Self" and yea, even with "Spirituality" (practical or philosophical) and with anything we can attach any label to, the ego automatically drops away due to the loss of any/all sensory association and what is left in its place? Truth...Consciousness....bliss....Satchitananda.

When the ego is totally lost/dropped or otherwise negated in this way, the aspirant (who is no longer thus) is said to have attained Moksha...The liberation of the embodied soul or "Jiva" from the repeated cycle of having to wear a meatsuit incarnation in and incarnation out...they return back to whence they came before the Big Bang...to remain one with Source.

For some people, especially those who are totally enjoying this Maya...who enjoy having an ego...who enjoy life with all of its sufferings...all the trials as well as the tribulations..who can't get enough of life...they don't care how many meatsuits they get to wear...they will also return to Source eventually...at the end of the Pralaya (the Big Crunch) and that is fine too...nothing wrong with that either.

It all depends whether you have got what it takes to continue "playing the game" or not...if you have, the machine will keep on being reset for you...if you have not, the power supply gets disconnected.

So, somebody may come up to you and say: "you are an effing idiot" (as an example) so, you can haul off and punch them in the nose because your ego is hurt (game gets reset) or you can laugh and go "really? that's news to me" because insults cannot touch you, just like how water cannot touch a lotus leaf (game has power switched off).

The choice is yours.

[Shivani Devi]

I also must thank Unseeking Seeker, Aethera and Janielee for their comments in response to my posts...thank you.

[Aethera]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I also must thank Unseeking Seeker, Aethera and Janielee for their comments in response to my posts...thank you.

You are quite welcome it was nicely written just as your other post was, before this one. I think it's a good example of explaining in depth of how the conditioning of the ego 'works'.

[Lynn]

What does spiritual development actually mean?

Most of you consider yourselves as being spiritual or spiritual evolving. But what does spiritual development actually mean? Is there a difference between spiritual development and other kinds of development a human can go through (like learning how to drive a car, how to use a credit card, or things you learn at school)? Or entails literally each kind of development a person undergoes - no matter how profane or earthly it is - inevitable a form of spiritual growth? Is spiritual development the same thing than character development?

And what is the goal of spiritual development? What is it good for? For what purpose should we develop?


Hello

I feel that we are two parts one being out Spirt that human personal part of our being where we hold our life path experiences and take those forth with us in our passing in death. Much of this I feel is the day to day living that we do and while it leaves an imprint its not the bigger picture of us. We can go through life not being spiritual at all not beleiving in really anything living a life where your just existing and nothing more. Where life is a day to day routine and you never give it more of a thought than that.

I too feel we have a Soul that is the bigger picture of us, that part of us that is of a collective bigger being or existance where we are here to learn something and do something that is for a collective higher being or existance. This is where that life path is maybe pre defined on some level. That the Soul comes in for a journey to clear things or to maybe prepare for another life.

I do feel that even if we are not seen to be spiritual there is something we do contribute in just being here. Life is a lesson that unfolds as we walk along the path with its ups and downs. No life is perfection I feel even if we say we had that life experience. We all have our times of struggles and sorrows.

What is the goal, Enlightenment for the Soul we are often taught, or to walk a Karma Free Path in life. To be a good person, but I have to wonder if at times the Soul we gets has different lessons at times to experience and we are said to be "born a bad seed".

The goal of the human part of us at times can be very EGO driven to be successful or powerful to get to the top no matter how many we have to walk over or even do worse to. Again this is a life path if development and at times maybe for a higher purpose than we know of in the one life time.

I have to feel that for our Soul to fiind Enlightenment we have to have expereince in all forms of human lives we can live life in. We can be good as gold or bad as the devil. We have to I feel walk the path of blessings and sufferings. Know what the good life is and what its like to walk in poverty. To kill and to be killed, to know what it is in whole to be that human animal that we are. We are very much two fold good and bad in the one being.

We are programmmed from day one to be lead in some ways. Its like indoctrination to be human. We go to school, we go to work, we learn to play and get on with others, then as we age too we can learn to not work with others and to see what EGO and power holds.

I feel that when we die we do not end, but we split back into that two parts of the whole. We are that Spirit that part of us that goes on that holds our life memories and that Soul part of us that goes on to yet another life, with another human. That is the part of us that is the most spiritual and needs to develope but I feel that Soul has to find the right path over so many lives in and out. Is there an end place where we say done we are whole I do wonder.

I just am happy to feel that there is much more than the Earth life we live to explore in the leaving of the physical body. Too we have to admit that it is great fun to have the 6 senses we hold with us for a blip in time.

Lynn

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I also must thank Unseeking Seeker, Aethera and Janielee for their comments in response to my posts...thank you.

You are awesome.

JL

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Siemens

Most of you consider yourselves as being spiritual or spiritual evolving. But what does spiritual development actually mean? Is there a difference between spiritual development and other kinds of development a human can go through (like learning how to drive a car, how to use a credit card, or things you learn at school)? Or entails literally each kind of development a person undergoes - no matter how profane or earthly it is - inevitable a form of spiritual growth? Is spiritual development the same thing than character development?

And what is the goal of spiritual development? What is it good for? For what purpose should we develop?

From my own understanding and experience (which is not Universal), the whole point and purpose of spiritual development is to align oneself with the highest ideal(s) of a conceptualised existence. Some may also call this "finding your true/authentic Self".

Why the ego has become involved in this discussion, is because the ego thinks it knows who your true/authentic self IS...but whether that is gonna hold any water for you or anybody else in the long run, is besides the point to the ego.

I thank Lynn for bringing the focus of this topic back on track as the segway into the nature of ego, although pertaining to this discussion, necessitates a seperate thread so as not to detract from the queries presented in the opening post.

Putting the ego aside for one moment, the whole crux of spiritual development hinges on one important personal introspection..viz:

"Am I happy/satisfied/fulfilled with the life I am leading at present?"
"What will it take for me to find this?"

We have oft heard it said that true happiness comes from within and not without..how there is nothing outside ourselves which can "make us happy".

However, for some (a lot) of people, that is simply not the case because things outside themselves DO make them happy (until they are gone)... relationships, money, popularity, comfort, having a job they love etc.

Many are totally satisfied and content going from one source of happiness to another and take all of the "miserable times" in between in their stride, saying "one cannot have the good without the bad" however, the distinction is made within this duality....The "good" is to be chased after and the "bad" is to be avoided at all costs.

Sometimes, along comes a person...one in a million who cannot get any satisfaction or happiness from anything the world has to offer. They realise there must be something beyond the superficial aspect of "living" as opposed to "embracing life" and they require something that remains unchanging and eternal despite everything around it constantly changing (and not very often for the better). They want something that will make them happy forever...to make them feel really high without ever coming back down...but they gotta work for that.

Such an insight, such an experience is only bestowed upon the "pure of heart" according to ALL spiritual and religious traditions and institutions and there is a "right of passage" each of us needs to go through to realise this and then actualise it. How far we have made it along this path, according to all the work we have put in AND the Divine Grace we have received...how grateful and appreciative we are of all this is called our "spiritual development" which is as unique to each and every one of us, as our fingerprints are.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

From my own understanding and experience (which is not Universal),the whole point and purpose of spiritual development is to align oneself with the highest ideal of existence. Some may call this "finding your true/authentic Self"

Why the ego has become involved in this discussion, is because the ego thinks it knows who your true/authentic self IS...whether it is gonna hold water for you or anybody else in the long run, is besides the point to the ego..

I thank Lynn for bringing the focus of this topic back on track as the segway into the nature of ego, although pertinent to this discussion, necessitates a seperate thread so as not to detract from the queries presented in the opening post.

Putting the ego aside for one moment, the whole crux of spiritual development hinges on one important personal introspection..

"Am I happy/satisfied/fulfilled with the life I am leading at present?"
"What will it take for me to find this?"

We have off heard it said that happiness comes from within and not without...that there is nothing outside ourselves that can "make us happy".

However, for some (a lot) of people, that is not the case because things outside themselves DO make them happy (until they are gone)... relationships, money, popularity, having a job they love etc.

Many are totally satisfied and content going from one source of happiness to another and take all of the "miserable times" in between in their stride "one cannot have the good without the bad" however, the distinction is made in this duality....The "good" is to be chased after and the "bad" is to be avoided at all costs.

Sometimes, along comes a person...One in A million who cannot get any satisfaction or happiness from anything the world has to offer. They realise there must be something beyond the superficial aspect of "living" as opposed to "embracing life" and something that remains unchanging and eternal despite everything around it constantly changing (and not very often for the better). They want something that will make them happy forever...to make them high without ever coming back down...but they gotta work for that.

Such an insight, such an experience is only bestowed upon the "pure of heart" according to ALL spiritual and religious traditions and institutions and there is a "right of passage" each of us needs to go through to realise this and then actualise this. How far we have made it along this path, according to all the work we have put in AND the Divine Grace we have received...how grateful and appreciative we are of all this is called our "spiritual development" which is as unique to each and every one of us, as our fingerprints are.

These words and recognition are so beautiful . I might have needed that, thanks.

And for the pure of heart, so what eh? What a long journey sometimes

Love SD

Namaste

JL

Thanks also to Lynn for such a mature and grounded energy she brings, thoughtful and balanced in perspective.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by janielee

These words and recognition are so beautiful . I might have needed that, thanks.

And for the pure of heart, so what eh? What a long journey sometimes

Love SD

Namaste

JL

Thank you Janielee..Thank you for also saying that I am awesome...so are you.

Now, "ego" is that thing which decides whether or not my head is going to fit through the door as a result.

It still can...what a relief that is.