What does spiritual development actually mean?

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Altair

GS is right in pointing out the concept 'ego' comes from psychologists. Ignoring this, waving it away, and creating some other definition that somehow fits ''holy'' scriptures that many are doing is an entirely different thing though. You may have an agreed-upon definition and use it to give ''meaning'' to your life, separate what you think is 'real' and what isn't, but to me it has zero meaning. I do not conduct my life and activities imagining A is real and B is unreal, I am a practical thinker and what you consider ''necessary'' I consider more mental games that you need in order to structure your life and your experiences.

Does the concept of ego come from psychologists? In the West, Freud certainly came up with the threefold id, ego and superego, but he was not the first.

Ahaṃkāra (अहंकार) is a Sanskrit term that is related to the ego and egoism - that is, the identification or attachment of one's ego. Ahamkara may be translated as the tendency to self-reference.

The term ahamkara comes from an approximately 3,000-year-old Vedic philosophy, where Ahaṃ is the "I" and kāra is "any created thing" or "to do". The term originated in Vedic philosophy over 3,000 years ago, and was later incorporated into Hindu philosophy, particularly Saṃkhyā philosophy.

in the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says to Arjuna that ahamkara must be removed - in other words, it should be subordinated to the Divine. The reason for this is that the Self is not (cannot be) present when one is in a state of ahamkara.

Peace.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I understand this my love, but if "we are all one", why do certain "personality clashes" make communication totally impossible between two souls? - as we have witnessed in this thread?

Why is it that we cannot all just accept each other and get along if we are all one?

Why is it, that often, the best recourse is to distance ourselves from those who have "bad vibes" and/or who seek to do harm if we are "all one"?

Why is it that some people say and do things that I would never say or do..I wouldn't even think of it! All I can think is that "I would never do such a thing" so how can we all be one?

While I agree that God dwells within us all, it seems like only those who have truly and honestly realised this can be said to be "at one" only with everyone else who has also realised this.

Thus, I am confused. Could you please help dispel my confusion? I deeply appreciate your help.

You are one sweet cookie, Shivani Devi (howls)

First of all, I am not fully Awakened - close but not in full submersion. Yet.

Secondly, One is One, and so too is it Two, is it Three, is it Five, and 8 Billion.
It is said in Buddhism that to negate the Absolute with Relativity or Relativity with the Absolute is to lose both. Ahhhh....and is it not so? For even as you are I, and I am you, we are also - in this play of life - distinct and unique and you and you, I as I.

It's so beautiful in Truth, so wondrous in design, is it not, Shivani Devi?

I remember very clearly that all of these argumentations, disputes, opinions, debates, they are all clearly and fully and completely reconciled once one has a true taste of spiritual insight, Gnosis.

Until then it is mind against mind. hahah

Even after, mind comes up and wants to fight mind. When it hears something whispered from beyond, still H/She clamors forward with that fighting sword of certainty, absolute limitation.

And to afar, those beyond may look similar, but as The Little Prince alluded to, it's the secret within.

Let the cynics and the yet to come smirk and parse and admonish, it doesn't impact those who are beyond, does it, Shivani Devi?

JL

Originally Posted by Altair

GS is right in pointing out the concept 'ego' comes from psychologists. Ignoring this, waving it away, and creating some other definition that somehow fits ''holy'' scriptures that many are doing is an entirely different thing though. You may have an agreed-upon definition and use it to give ''meaning'' to your life, separate what you think is 'real' and what isn't, but to me it has zero meaning.

I'm afraid those evil bad spiritual Masters came up with the concept first, Altair. Damn those dumb *** pigs! (etc)

JL

Originally Posted by Greenslade

That's where we very much differ JL, because I don't have much inclination for the ideologies and theologies. I was roasted for quoting another member, but then that was me. I understand that everybody has their own definitions of what Spirituality is but theirs is religion to me.

It is a forum of different perspectives, it wouldn't be much of a forum otherwise but it's in that interaction where another Spirituality occurs as far as I'm concerned.

"All That Is" becomes "All That Is Spiritual", and "As Above, So Below. So Below, So Above" (which is the complete Hermetic Principle) is "As Above. As Above." When what is in part responsible for our Spirituality and the rest of our experiential existence has no place in the Spiritual p.o.v. but is summarily ignored or demonised - when it's supposedly responsible for all the ills in the world - then Unity Consciousness will be further off than you think because there will be aspects of ourselves that we are ignoring and detaching from, and instead there will be ignorant (both what is rejected and not know). If we as humans are not unified both with our beliefs and who and what we are, the frameworks of that Unity Consciousness will be just as egotistical as that which is demonised and shunned.

Clearly you haven't spent enough time understanding what you're shunning but I guess that comes with the territory. I suppose all you see it all you look at.

I Honour your Path.

And this is where we differ (I am smiling completely)

1. It's not ideologies I worship or care about, don't you know that? It's Truth that I care about first and foremost, and those words and echoes of incredible synchronicity, consistency and application, are those that are similarly touched. You've always assumed, I believe, and I haven't really cared to comment, that it's people or texts I look up to. LOL Far from it but when you've been to Wonderland, and someone speaks, you know without a doubt that's simply true. It helps to be in the company of spiritual adepts across traditions. Love loves company IMO.

2. The argument seems to be coming up a lot recently - ohhh you are neglecting yourself, ohhh you are not looking at your evil little dark side etc. Really, it's a moot point. Anyone who does the spiritual thing (if this is what we're gonna call it) has and will always be looking at all that is, and arises within. No-one need to fret there.

3. Those that are enarmored by the proposition that ego is all there is, and spiritual development is just about better morals and thoughts, runs a fine story - but to imagine it's what the traditions - Jesus, Buddha, Meister Eickhart, Rumi, Hafiz, Auribindo, Lao Tze etc talk about - is far from correct, regardless of agreement or otherwise.

In friendship and happy that you have found what works for you

JL

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by janielee

You are one sweet cookie, Shivani Devi (howls)

First of all, I am not fully Awakened - close but not in full submersion. Yet.

Secondly, One is One, and so too is it Two, is it Three, is it Five, and 8 Billion.
It is said in Buddhism that to negate the Absolute with Relativity or Relativity with the Absolute is to lose both. Ahhhh....and is it not so? For even as you are I, and I am you, we are also - in this play of life - distinct and unique and you and you, I as I.

It's so beautiful in Truth, so wondrous in design, is it not, Shivani Devi?

I remember very clearly that all of these argumentations, disputes, opinions, debates, they are all clearly and fully and completely reconciled once one has a true taste of spiritual insight, Gnosis.

Until then it is mind against mind. hahah

Even after, mind comes up and wants to fight mind. When it hears something whispered from beyond, still H/She clamors forward with that fighting sword of certainty, absolute limitation.

And to afar, those beyond may look similar, but as The Little Prince alluded to, it's the secret within.

Let the cynics and the yet to come smirk and parse and admonish, it doesn't impact those who are beyond, does it, Shivani Devi?

JL

Thank you for that truthful discourse my dear, but is it not still mind against mind even after one has tasted truth?

If one is to say "black is white"... another says "no, black is black" and yet another says "why label it?" how is any common ground obtained for the relationship between one human and another?

Or, can we rightly say that hating each other, going to war over concepts of the mind, destroying, killing etc is fine too because we are all different?

Can we honestly believe that the Earth is flat?

Being of Indonesian descent, I fully get the "Unity in Diversity" bit, but from my experience, diversity creates anything BUT Unity!

It becomes; "I believe what I believe...you believe what you believe,..never the twain shall meet...so go away..I have no time for you or your beliefs and opinions.."

How do we recognise and understand this concept of unity or oneness under these circumstances?

What part of say Adolph Hitler is "at one" with myself?

This is the concept that I am failing to understand.

Also, in addition to this, why is it that when anybody says anything very offensive towards me and I take it personally, my detractor tells me to "look within myself" and yet whenever I do that, I always get the same answer..."nothing to see here...He/she is just being a total jerk...so just forget them and move on".

So, wherefore are these "lessons" that I am supposed to be learning?

[JosephineB]

Shivani Devi, sorry to butt in again. I've read some of your words but not all. Have you ever mentioned about anything to do with forgiveness?

I will respond tomorrow SD

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by JosephineBloggs

Shivani Devi, sorry to butt in again. I've read some of your words but not all. Have you ever mentioned about anything to do with forgiveness?

On what grounds should this forgiveness occur? How does one forgive total ignorance and stupidity? How does one have compassion towards those who create their own misery and suffering? I just don't get it...therefore I have never felt forgiveness, compassion or empathy, because I simply cannot relate to the behaviour of my fellow human being on ANY level whatsoever..I was born without the ability to do so...hence why I ask all of these questions...so that I may learn it.
.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

On what grounds should this forgiveness occur? How does one forgive total ignorance and stupidity? How does one have compassion towards those who create their own misery and suffering? I just don't get it...therefore I have never felt forgiveness, compassion or empathy, because I simply cannot relate to the behaviour of my fellow human being on ANY level whatsoever..I was born without the ability to do so...hence why I ask all of these questions...so that I may learn it.
.

I don't know all of that either, but it feels nice to be able to share it with people. I think it might help to talk about it face-to-face with others. I think I may recall somewhere that you are lacking this a bit. My conversations with others who do yoga are invaluable, it really helps. Online world just isn't remotely similar, it's just words written down, words that demand interpretation without facial cues, sufficient context, tone, etc. If you connect with others it's just much easier to think of forgiveness and compassion. I'm not so sure that you can't relate Shivani..

Interesting by the way that you are learning about East African languages. May I ask why an Aussie is doing that..?!

[JosephineB]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

On what grounds should this forgiveness occur? How does one forgive total ignorance and stupidity? How does one have compassion towards those who create their own misery and suffering? I just don't get it...therefore I have never felt forgiveness, compassion or empathy, because I simply cannot relate to the behaviour of my fellow human being on ANY level whatsoever..I was born without the ability to do so...hence why I ask all of these questions...so that I may learn it.
.

On any grounds the forgiveness can occur. I watched a couple of films that had a profound effect on me regarding forgiveness. Although they are in book format if that's more suitable for others. I can only recommend the films though, as I've not read those books. Anyway, the films are: Dead Man Walking 1995 and Pierrepoint 2005.

We have to learn to forgive ourselves our own ignorance and stupidity, before we can forgive others theirs. You could cut yourself off from your mother and get away from the toxic, but you choose to still have dealings with her.